Thanks for the thought-provoking (if somewhat lengthy) post. 

You're welcome of course. I found it to be pretty sobering stuff. Also, I know that many of those on the right seem to have this idea that nobody in the intelligence community voiced their concern with the manipulation of evidence and that's entirely untrue. What I think ignoring that does...and what continuing to support this administration does...is it gives a free pass to anyone that wants to manipulate the system and to use our military establishment to achieve any personal or narrow political goals that do not have to involve the "good of the country" or "best interests of Americans" in mind. Let's not try to manipulate that statement into meaning I'm saying "piss on the rest of the world" either...what I mean exactly is that backing the Bush administration is saying that you support a small group of, in this case, neocons acting as a "parasite" (Ms. Kwiatkowski's words) on the back of our establishment to achieve and fulfill their own agenda regardless of it's effect on our country and people. Plain and simple, they have hijacked our government and military establishment. Now I know I just said the same thing several times but it's a point worth driving home. It's not "conspiracy theory",  I know that's how a righty would label what I just said, it's been done right out in the open for the most part. The Congress has been a willing participant and we were all subject to the collateral damage caused by 9-11 that pretty much opened the door to letting all this happen. Now that members of the Congress are awake to the circumstances...rather than submersed in that post 9-11 fog...they can see that mistakes have been made and have been pretty straight forward in pointing them out. The articles I posted are the words of an eyewitness to this madness and should not be overlooked.

As a minor side note to this, I've noticed seeing Bush give speeches the last few weeks he looks like he's very worried...I almost want to say terrified...I don't think it's John Kerry that's giving him this feeling either...I believe the heat is on in DC and as I pointed out the activities of this administration are under investigation...I think there are some chickens coming home to roost and what's going on behind closed doors for Bushco is very dark at the moment. That's just a feeling of course but the usual "What me worry?" facade that Mr. Bush always wears seems to have begun to crack and fade. Plus all his speeches and the campaign posture is all very defensive...not to mention very full of hot air. They look like they are in trouble is the bottom line...and really they are.

 Ms. K.  didn't mention it, but there's a picnic area in the middle of the pentagon.  I had lunch there 30 years ago with my Dad, my Mom and my Sister.  Dad used to say (this was his level I suspect) that you could get from any point in the building to any other point in 5 minutes.  I've printed your post(s) and will talk to him about it within the next two weeks or so.

Lee, I'm very interested in hearing what your dad has to say. If you don't want to post his thoughts on the board here please feel free to email them to me...or if it's a lot to write out I can give you my number and you can call me. I think it sounds as if he would have quite an interesting take on things...he's got perspective...I just read the papers.

Dad's a diehard Reuplican, I mean, Republican, whose 'feith' has been tampered with by 'w'.

I'm not one of those people that believes all Republicans are "blind and evil" and I certainly understand the reasons for leaning in that direction. I only point that out because I know some on the right here just take the attitude that anyone that supports a left leaning idea...or politician...believes all Republicans should be hung up by their toes and flogged. Personally I think there needs to be a balance and if either side is permitted to run amok it spells trouble. All that being said, I am very curious to know if Republicans...or conservatives...are troubled at all by this new breed we call neocons...because they do not in any way shape or form represent traditional "Republican values"...I know those on the right love that word "values" so I'm happy to throw it in. What has happened and I think Republicans right now should be the most pissed off...is these neocons hijacked their party and duped the lot of them. Now either most of them don't want to admit to this or they just can't see it. Either way, it's too damn dangerous a situation to ignore.

But back when Reagan was Prez, we both wondered why there was a 2 term limit...I was 16 or so...anyway, the questions -

I'm not exactly sure I know what you mean by that comment.  

1) do you think we need a national referendum on a foreign policy document? 

Well, the simple answer is no, I don't but you know I like to ramble. I think it's sort of sad that we've reached the point where that becomes a valid question. What happened to trusting our leaders to make good solid informed decisions that are in the best interests of our country and people? What happened to the machinery...the system that we put in place to allow them to do so? Well, obviously if you've read what I posted from Ms. K that machinery has been manipulated...horrifically so...and what I think we need is a cure for that. Honestly, these intelligence people have been handed the blame for what went wrong...but if you read what they are saying...and observe that many of them quit or were forced out...and that all of their warnings were ignored or seen as "conflicting with the interests of the administration"...well it becomes pretty clear it was not our intelligence people that were to blame. I think you need to allow an administration to make choices based on the situation and obviously in the case of emergency as you pointed out...well each situation dictates special action...but the choices made are only as good as the people we have informing those choices...and in the case of Bushco and Iraq or the "War On Terror"...well this is precedent setting because of the blatent way they bypassed the system and ignored the people that were put in place to inform their decisions.  

I know this sounds a little absurd - whether it's a giant spaceborne rock hurtling down to change the atmosphere or some mideasterner with the 'wrong stuff' shouldn't we have some policy in place that addresses the issue with existing resources?

I think what you're saying boils down to shouldn't they plan ahead...and yes, I believe they should but there would seem to be a level of variables in any situation that could only be addressed once it had been properly evaluated and that again falls to the people and system you have in place to deal with it at the time. Once again in the case of Bushco...they bypassed the system and the people that were in place...and of course to top it off have attempted to rewrite the rule book in such a way that power and decision making in this sort of circumstance permanently cuts people out of the loop and leaves it in the hands of a small group. It's this sort of concentration of power that would cause our founding fathers to puke on their shoes and of course also benefits a small group (neocons) bent on forwarding their agenda. Why this is not clear as a bell to our Republican friends (well, some of them see it) is beyond me.

The Constitution doesn't seem to adequately address acts that result in a national emergency...rather than amend it for Bill of Rights issues, why not come up with a seperate document that incorporates both, but can span administrations and hold them accountable?

Well, the thing to me is, I believe the founding fathers when they wrote the Constitution did not mean to address every issue because really how could they? It's got to come down to some extent to how the people in place deal with a given situation at the given moment...meaning I'm not sure what kind of document you would suggest drafting...if it's one that is meant to increase accountability...well, see the thing there is like with Bushco, they want to ride around on the idea that all of their decisions were made during a time of crisis and were based on what information they had (be it good or bad) and they claim it was all done because they felt there was a looming threat...so by that argument...I mean the very nature of that argument is "We're not responsible for our decisions"...that argument on it's own is so full of uncertainty it's ridiculous...it says "We don't know if there was a threat but we acted in case there was."...it says "We don't know if our intelligence was good or bad but we acted in case it was good."...it says "We don't really know if Iraq was involved in attacking us on 9-11 but we acted anyway just in case they were."...it says "9-11 was a surprise attack and in order not to be surprised again we'll attack anyone we feel might surprise us."...it says basically that they can do what they want, attack who they want, violate any law, code, or system that is in place and be justified in doing so because they "believe" (not needing evidence of) something...and they don't even have to know what...may happen.

It's a total fraud and a sham...it's a disgrace...and you don't lead a country on ifs and buts and guessing games. It's why you brought up accountibility I would imagine and really the most important thing is to hold Bushco accountable so that they can't set this dangerous and ridiculous precedent. I don't think we need new legislation to do this but I do think our government needs to take a long hard look at how things were done to prevent it from happening again in the future. Most of all we need to remove this group from office so that they understand we the people frown on this sort of insane behavior. I wish we could make it clear to Republicans here that it's not about "hate"...it's about real hardcore serious issues that will alter the course of this country.

2) "Neoconservatives are fairly easy to study, mainly because they are few in number, and they show up at all the same parties." - the same could be said for many Baerwald fans - am I an Archliberal? 

I don't think so....

I don't think so either. I think you've got a damn good sense of humor though.

Hope they were good questions.....

The questions were good. I hope I didn't bore the shit out you with my answers. Maybe GA will show up to tell me how insane I am.