"Do you think things are better or worse for the the world in general and especially, and more importantly, for the average Iraqi since then? Seriously. just answer that."

I think they are worse, far worse in fact. Now, I suppose I should give reasons why because in reading through this thread I noticed the accusations that all we are is a bunch of bitchy liberals that offer nothing but complaints. Which, just for the record, I feel is a pile of shit that is part of the dull (dim) daily drone of the right, in their incessant attempt to downplay what may as well be called an apocalyptic course they seem only too delighted to be charting for us. I should also point out I spent the last three days hanging out with a Marine who has done two tours in Iraq and will soon return there for another year and a rather bright young Harvard grad whose field (and passion) is sources of alternative renewable energy. I am very proud to say they are both members of my family.  

So, here's why:

1. Things have not improved for the average Iraqi. Iraq is without question a far more dangerous place for average citizens now than it was with Saddam at the helm. A simple trip to buy fruit is likely to end in death or (and probably worse) a life altering injury or death of a family member. Saddam's regime, by all accounts, had lost most of its teeth by the time we showed up to remove him. His worst human rights abuses were some 20 years behind him. In fact, if we had been listing the top 20 or so places we should have sent troops to end some vicious regime's human rights abuses, Iraq probably would not have made the hot list at the time we attacked them. I mean it's wonderful he's gone, we just showed up 20 years, and a lot of lives, late. So, the human rights argument is pretty damn pathetic but like a lot of the arguments from the "right" it sounds good and seems steeped in common sense. You can repeat it over and over and it sounds like you are a "compassionate conservative" and it even has the built in bonus of making opposing viewpoints sound like "weak Saddam sympathizers" that "should not be trusted with this country's security." The Wurlitzer plays on...

2. Attacking Iraq did not help us in any way to improve our position in the war on terror. In fact, all it did was waste resources and lives and speed up the degeneration of our status on the world stage. It's given the terrorists a foothold, recruiting tool, and public relations bonanza; in that they are showing the world they can mire its greatest superpower in an ugly fight. A fight in which they can score quickly and easily killing the soldiers of our supposed elite military and even worse, convince others it is in fact possible to "fight the west." 

3. The "it's all about the oil" cry has been proven true. Our president has been giving speeches about increasing the world's oil production, building more refineries, and drilling where once it was not allowed. With all of their "evidence" against Saddam and "proof of his WMD programs" turning out to be pure rubbish (and the fact that so many said it was rubbish before we attacked Iraq), the truth that we wanted to clear a path to the Iraqi oil fields is now painfully clear to the world. The fact that scientists had made a major breakthrough in cold fusion research ( http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html ) and the possibility that with the proper funding entering a hydrogen age may be within our reach was not even mentioned in the president's recent rhetoric about the need for more oil refineries. This only highlights the greed driven aspect of this war and the short sighted nonsense being spouted by quite a few republicans in this country. It proves that our current "Texas oil man" administration is more concerned with keeping us an oil addicted country and stuffing money in the pockets of their big oil pals until they have milked every last drop for every last cent they can. If they were really concerned with our well being and our children's well being they would be pouring money into renewable alternative energy research and not into the pockets of the military industrial complex and big oil. We are no more than 50 years from a full on oil crisis and we elected, not once but twice, the biggest whore to big oil in the history of this country.

Historians will be pondering the stupidity of our times for generations to come, if they get the chance. At a critical point in history we were bickering about "family values", "abortion", and "same sex marriage" rather than attending to the most pressing needs of our country and the world. We elected an administration that squandered our resources and divided the country over supposed "moral issues" and did all they could to keep us enslaved by big oil until they collected every last buck. They have thrown us in reverse at a time when we desperately need to go forward. They have worked hard to crush the advance of medical research, alternative energy research, and held us hostage to our fear of terrorism. They have done all they can to use terror to alter the system of checks and balances our founding fathers put in place to assure us a government for the people, by the people, and of the people.

Are we better off? No, certainly not. Iraq may be the greatest mistake this country ever made and at the worst possible moment. Or maybe the greatest mistake was electing Bush in the first place. Or maybe it was electing Reagan because had that not happened we would not have had Bush 1 and Bush 2. Or maybe it was Nixon. Or maybe all great republics that grow too fast and get too greedy are doomed.

I don't know, Marc. I just know the Wurlitzer plays on and on...