Another mother suffers...
Reg
location: back to the wilderness
listening to: static
registered: 1999.11.22
The following is an interview with the mother of Johnny Gosch, a young boy who was kidnapped some 22 years ago. In a bizarre twist it appears that Johnny Gosch may have resurfaced in a big way, as Jeff Gannon. This interview is disturbing and I don't think you will be able to forget it after you read it.
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INTERVIEW WITH NOREEN GOSCH
CHARLENE: Isn't this the first time Jeff Gannon has publicly stated that he's not Johnny Gosch? Why now?
NOREEN: I think Gannon needs to continue the publicity and is now coming forward on the DNA only too keep somewhat of a spotlight on himself.
CHARLENE: Even though you've always publicly maintained that you didn't know if Jeff Gannon was Johnny Gosch, Gannon has threatened to sue you on three different occasions. Why? What types of contact have you had with Jeff Gannon?
NOREEN: I have had only email communication with Gannon. He threatened to sue me because I have stated " I do not know if Gannon is or is not Johnny". He claims that is throwing doubt in the minds of people who would otherwise say he is not Johnny. I would think he would want the DNA test and if he is not Johnny ... then state it publicly and be done with it.
CHARLENE: I understand there are some unique physical characteristics that Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch share. What are they?
NOREEN: There are many facial features and the basic structure of his face which are similar to Johnny. The color of his eyes and reports of a birthmark on Gannon is the same as Johnny's. I have not seen the birthmark however.
CHARLENE: For many internet researchers and bloggers, there appear to be numerous reasons to suspect that Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch are the same person. For starters, the name Jeff Gannon, seems be related to Johnny Gosh in a twisted sort of way. Would you explain the "name game" and how it relates to other "players" and Johnny?
NOREEN: It appears in all of the alias names Gannon has used that he kept the same initials as Johnny... JDG. Gannon also chose the last name of the Des Moines Register Editor at the time Johnny was kidnapped. There just seems to be a replay constantly of Johnny's initials or clues to link Gannon to parts of Johnny's life.
CHARLENE: Besides the physical attributes and JDG initials pattern, what other linkages/revelations between Gannon and Johnny have compelled you and your team to propose a DNA test be administered to Gannon in order to acheive closure on the Gannon/Gosch issue?
NOREEN: There have been two informants who have stated Gannon and Johnny are one in the same person. For me, the only way that could possibly be resolved is a DNA test. That is the reason my investigative team have asked for a DNA test.
CHARLENE: I understand you've verified that Johnny had plastic surgery about 4 years ago, and coincidentally he also started shaving his head around the same time.
NOREEN: Yes, long before Gannon surfaced, I had learned that Johnny had plastic surgery and begun to shave his head. So when Gannon did come on the scene... it was one more thing to consider.
CHARLENE: Not long ago, on an internet radio interview, I heard Rusty Nelson, Larry King's ex-private, pedophile-ring photographer speaking about, among other things, Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch. Unfortunately, Rusty Nelson's story is beyond the scope of this interview. Suffice it to say, in order to survive and out of sheer desperation, Rusty managed to escape from Larry King's clutches and is currently on the lam. Naturally, having been King's private photographer, Nelson knew Johnny. During the interview Nelson offered his opinion as to whether or not he thought Johnny Gosch was Jeff Gannon. To paraphrase, he volunteered that he felt close to certain that they were one and the same person. He followed up with an anecdotal story about having serendipitously bumped into Johnny Gosch, several years ago at a Farmer's Market--I can't recall where. It seems to me that Rusty Nelson is qualified to speculate on this matter. Were you aware of his conjecture? Have you been in contact with Rusty Nelson?
NOREEN: I have been in contact with Rusty and have known him for years. He has shared a great deal of information with us and testified in federal court in 1999 as to all of these events. He told me nearly 4 years ago that he had seen Johnny at the Farmer's Market in a particular city.
CHARLENE: As of late you've been in contact with the Franklin kids. These are the children from the Des Moines and Omaha area who were also abducted and MK-ULTRAED into Larry King's international, elite controlled, pedophile ring around the same time Johnny was. Some of these survivors are no doubt members of the original 83 children who came forward to testify about their horrific abuse in the Franklin Case. Of course, like Johnny these "children" are now approaching 40 years of age, but they are most likely developmentally arrested, to greater or lesser degrees, "emotionally frozen" at the age they were abducted and ritually traumatized. Can you share with us what these survivors, the victims of King's pedophile ring are telling you of their horrific ordeal and their feelings about the future?
NOREEN: I have been in touch with a number of the Franklin kids, many have shared information with me. They continue communication to this day. For a number of them, their lives have been broken as children who were victims of these crimes. It is true they are now all approaching 40 years of age. Many are "fed up... angry" about what happened to them and how their lives have been robbed. Some want to do something about it and others are still very afraid for themselves and their loved ones.
CHARLENE: I believe that you once said some of these survivors feel like they have been programmed to do something in the future, but they don't know what it is. It sounds like a group of "sleeper" Manchurian Candidate cells that could be activated at any time for evil purposes--no doubt. Could you explain?
NOREEN: It is a form of Manchurian Candidate....many feel these kids are programmed to be accessed/triggered for some future use or project.
CHARLENE: Many of these kids knew Johnny. Do some of the Franklin kids you've been in contact with believe Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch?
NOREEN: The majority of the Franklin kids I have been in contact with do believe Jeff Gannon is Johnny. Some say they have been in communication with him on a fairly regular basis. I would suspect this is done by email on computer rather than face to face meetings.
CHARLENE: On the Johnny Gosch Foundation website: http://www.johnnygosch.com --you describe Johnny as "Chameleon" like. Others have also characterized him as "Chameleon" like, including some of the surviving Franklin kids. Is it true that Jeff Gannon also described himself as "Chameleon" like?
NOREEN: Throughout this investigation, I have been trained as a Private Investigator... I listen for these "plays on words". The reference to Johnny being a Chameleon was given to me by seven of the Franklin kids I have known. I asked them why he was considered a "Chameleon". They all told me it was because Johnny was a "master of disguise". Gannon then began referring to himself as "the Chameleon". I find that to be significant... Could it be a coincidence...." co-incident" or was it given by Gannon as some kind of clue. Gannon has also stated he has "hidden in plain sight". Interesting idea.
CHARLENE: And then there's that pesky DNA test Gannon's been dodging... until now--maybe? It seems Gannon has a pattern of agreeing to submit to a DNA test, only later to refuse-- for one reason or another. Also, most people probably aren't aware that Gannon has repeatedly stipulated various conditions that need to be met by your team as part of his agreeing to a DNA test. Can you summarize the history of DNA negotiations with Gannon up to and including the current agreement?
NOREEN: In March 2005, shortly after this story broke about Gannon. I wrote to him by email (3 times) to ask him to "quietly agree to a DNA test" to resolve this situation. Gannon did not answer my emails. We then sent a gentleman representing me to Gannon's home to talk with him. Gannon answered the door, when the man asked him about a DNA and told he was there on behalf of the "woman in Iowa". Gannon slammed the door on the man.
We later were on a network TV show in which Gannon said he would take a DNA test. Only to later develop all kinds of stipulations:
1. That the results should be kept private (no problem there).
2. That I would be required to make a public statement saying he was not my son and sign documents agreeing not to ever mention his name in public.
3. That Gannon would publicly make some declarations of
"spiritual support" for me.
4. Finally, that Gannon go forward to be a "national speaker for Missing Children."
Some of these conditions were absurd.
To date... Gannon agreed to do the DNA on Michael Corbin's show then has stalled once again. The DNA test is now in limbo for a while.
CHARLENE: Did Gannon ever ask to be paid for taking a DNA test?
NOREEN: Yes at one time he stated he wanted to be paid big bucks for his "DNA SAMPLE". I rejected that idea but offered to pay for the actual test.
CHARLENE: As I recall, your longtime private investigator, Mr. Rothstein, who is a retired NYC Detective, is in charge of DNA negotiations/ logistics with Jeff Gannon. If Gannon actually follows through and submits to a DNA test, I'm sure Rothstein will ensure every step of the procedure is carefully monitored. Call me paranoid, but I would be suspicious of the results-- if there were any unsupervised gaps (breaks in the chain of evidence) between the blood being drawn and the DNA analysis. Even if the lab is reputable, elite sociopaths (people behind Gannon?) with unlimited power and money to burn always seem to find ways to derail these well intentioned, truth seeking investigations. I'm sure Mr. Rothstein is twenty steps ahead of me on this-- and has a plan in place to control as many variables as humanly possible so that Gannon's DNA test results will be bona fide. Can you comment?
NOREEN: Jim Rothstein has arranged for a reliable lab to do the DNA test. We have advised Gannon of this... He has refused to give us the name of his attorney so we can communicate with him to make arrangements.
CHARLENE: It seem obvious that Gannon is playing mind games with you regarding his willingness or lack there of to take a DNA test! And as you've astutely surmised, this on again off again DNA test scenario is free publicity for him. And I'm sure Gannon is more than capable of making good use of publicity, even if it's negative. On the other hand, if he is Johnny Gosch, taking a DNA test could undoubtedly put him in harms way. Then again, this DNA volleyball could be part of an overall cynical strategy by Gannon and his handlers to keep the "Gannon is Gosch" story alive, but essentially take the energy out of it. The story continues, it limps along, but in a vapid state of limbo. This way the character arc, the tension, the climax of the story can been shifted to fit an agenda. Maybe this game is a backdoor approach for Gannon to gain control of the "Is Gannon really Gosch" speculation frenzy. He knows the DNA ball will forever be in his court. If Gannon can keep the story focused at the level of a DNA test that's never resolved, and if he can keep the public's ATTENTION focused on forensics -- he's in control. And while he does his DNA dance, he can also threaten legal action against anyone who publicly wonders about the is "Gannon really Gosch" riddle -- it's a CHECKMATE of sorts.
CHARLENE: A local media outlet in your region about a month ago ran a piece on their internet site announcing that there had been a significant "breakthrough" in the Johnny Gosch case. I think they described it as: "Johnny Gosch case heating-up." Yet they never mentioned exactly what the breakthrough was! Or I just plain missed it. However, they did mention something about the CIA and their alleged involvement in organized pedophilia. What happened to the CIA agent who had contacted you in order to help you crack the Johnny Gosch case years ago, and who was instrumental in your testifying before a Congressional Committee? What was the "breakthrough" in Johnny's case?
NOREEN: The CIA agent who has resurfaced recently has brought information to Jim Rothstein which is significant at this time. Jim shared a portion of it, which the Waterloo, Iowa TV station reported on. It was then circulated throughout the internet. He informed us that originally 1700 children were targeted for this project... they (pedophile ring) set about kidnapping children throughout the country over a period of years. The number of "usable children" they ended up with was approximately 1,000. I filed a FIOA request and received a reply saying "All records on Johnny's case with the CIA have vanished."
CHARLENE: After all these years, a fearful eye-witness finally came forward and detailed what really had happened to Johnny Gosch on the day he was kidnapped. He illuminated a crucial, hidden aspect of Johnny's abduction. He knew Johnny wasn't a runaway, he had watched Johnny's abduction unfold from a window in the safety of his home. What's the significance of this new revelation after all these years? Could this new eye-witness report officially reopen the Johnny Gosch case?
NOREEN: We learned 22 years later that the only eye-witness to the kidnapping was forced to change his story years ago by the police chief. He saw a man shoot Johnny with a stun gun, saw him fall, then be thrown into the back seat of a waiting car. The witness instead stated he only heard the slamming of a car door. By the changing of the story 22 years later, it allowed the Police chief, Orval Cooney deniability and then call Johnny a "runaway child" instead of "kidnapped child". We also later learned the same police chief had been attending the sex parties in Omaha Nebraska with the Franklin kids, so it is no mystery why he was trying to "bury the Johnny Gosch story/case". The police say the case remains open to this day...but when I approached them with this information... they say " we are not going to try and reinvent the wheel". A cute way of sidestepping the issue. We are discussing possibilities of legal recourse but have not made a decision as yet.
CHARLENE: There's been some disturbing incidents and strange, synchronistic events involving you and others, who were or are connected to the Johnny Gosch case. Recently, there was your yearly Johnny Gosch "update" interview with a local radio host, a seasoned, nine year veteran, who was subsequently fired. Not long after the update interview, a strange doll was delivered to your door. And then, about two days later, you heard some distressing news on the radio about a man who had revealed to you important information about your local Police Chief and Johnny's kidnapping. Comments?
NOREEN: Marty Stacey, an Omaha radio talk show host, did an interview with me and Jim Rothstein. During the interview, we shared the information in the question/answer above regarding the police chief being involved in this scandal. The following day Marty was called in by his boss and fired... the reason given was the "Gosch/Rothstein interview". The following morning someone placed an "anatomically correct, blow up, nude sex doll with dark hair and a hole blown in the head at the door of my home". No one saw it being placed there. The police were called and I made a police report on the situation. We consider this to be a "veiled" threat towards me regarding the information that I gave during the interview.
CHARLENE: How many and what types of other threats and or harassment have you experienced prior to the doll incident?
NOREEN: Over the years I have been followed, received threatening phone calls, had men come to my home and pound on the outside of my house, throw rocks at my home. My cars have been damaged. It has been a very nerve wracking situation and one has to wonder, why would anyone harass the mother of a missing child ..... just for looking for her child? It is because there is much more to this crime and they are afraid I will uncover it and make it ALL PUBLIC.
CHARLENE: Is there an official/unofficial body-count related to the Franklin/Johnny Gosch case?
NOREEN: The official body count for deaths in the Franklin/Johnny case is now up to 15 deaths of witnesses and people who have come forward with information.
CHARLENE: From what you and your investigators have discovered, what have you determined about how organized pedophile rings function? For example, is it true that these rings hire professional photographers to surreptitiously photograph children, and then compile these photos into catalogues so "clients" can choose their preferred victims?
NOREEN: In August 1984, I testified at a Senate Hearing in Washington DC. It was an Organized Crime hearing regarding Missing Children. During the various testimony by myself and others, Ken Lanning of the FBI, also testified. The FBI also provided a catalog of materials confiscated by them during the arrest of pedophiles. There were instruction books on molesting children, torture devices and a catalog of children who had not yet been kidnapped. A prospective "BUYERS GUIDE".
CHARLENE: On a more personal note, I worked at a Rape Crisis Center, in the early 90's as a psychotherapist, as an advocate for sexual abuse victims, as well as directing and coordinating a Children's SafeHouse. The SafeHouse was a specially prepared room in the center where we forensically interviewed sexually abused children in order to provide evidence to hopefully prosecute perpetrators directly or use the evidence to extract confessions and then prosecute. Sadly, there was an appalling number of sexually abused children who were routinely referred to the center, for therapy and Safe-House interviews. And guess what? ORGANIZED PEDOPHILE RINGS WERE NEVER MENTIONED--EVER! All the standard, official literature about pedophilia was contained to sick individuals acting alone. I seriously doubt if that has changed. The Johnny Gosch case and others like it were NEVER mentioned. And we at the center were considered to be among cutting edge sexual abuse specialists, educators and therapists. Rape Crisis centers and police departments around the country should be buying box loads of your books. Are they?
NOREEN: What we uncovered 22 years ago was that many pedophile rings are operative in this country. No one wanted to hear this information at that time. Now we hear it in the form of "human trafficking". We have a task force created in Washington DC working on this very degree of "high crime". My book is helpful for people, as this outlines from the beginning how Johnny's kidnapping transpired and it will help others protect their children.
CHARLENE: Why do you think so few American's know the truth about the Johnny Gosch case? Why do you think organized pedophilia operates under-the-radar, while depraved, lone nutters or sick relatives who commit single or serial acts of pedophilia are splashed all over the mainstream tabloids and newspapers?
NOREEN: It may appear that many people do not know about Johnny's case but there has been visitors from all over the world to my
website.... http://www.johnnygosch.com. Some of the countries were France, England, Japan, China, Russia, Argentina, Greece, Italy, not to mention all over the United States. It is not in the main stream media now because it is not a "new case". During the early years there was a lot of press coverage, but older cases have to move over to make room for the new ones.
CHARLENE: Do you know how high up in government and corporate circles the pedophile ring Larry King was operating reached?
NOREEN: I only know he had high political connections in the Republican party and had "friends in high places" so to speak.
CHARLENE: From my research, it appears organized pedophilia is more rampant than ever. It's international in scope, and it's a multi-billion dollar growth industry. Please comment.
NOREEN: Pedophilia, kiddie porn and child prostitution is a multi-billion dollar business. The only reason we have it to this degree is "supply and demand and supply and demand". We have many high level wealthy pedophiles. The only difference between a rich and poor pedophile is: The poor pedophile must kidnap his own victims...while the rich one can afford to have his victims brought to him." It sounds so simplistic but it is true.
CHARLENE: Was it John DeCamp who had informed you that after Larry King was released from Federal Prison in 2001, he had a plum position waiting for him somewhere within the ranks of the Republican Party? Larry King had been famously characterized in the old days as: "the fastest rising black star in the Republican Party." Often overlooked is the fact that King was found guilty of financial crimes ONLY while he was head honcho at the Franklin Community Credit Union. It's common knowledge that the Credit Union collapsed due to massive financial irregularities, but it's uncommon knowledge that King was never charged, and should have been, for his after hours pedophile and money laundering activities while using the same credit union as a front. So it would be no surprise to me if King had quietly resumed his secret lifestyle as a pedophile kingpin, and is once again living a life of privilege and power behind the scenes in Washington D.C., hosting late night pedophile parties in some elegant mansion along Embassy Row, as he did before.
And then there's this:
According to the June 1989 "above the crease", SIZZLING front page article in the Washington Times, and later verified in court by Paul Bonacci, the White House has allegedly also hosted several of these "after hours" parties. I've read that King has had close ties with Boy's Town since 1979. I've heard through the grapevine that Larry King has recently met with Boys Town officials from Omaha with plans to help
create another Boys Town on the outskirts of Washington, D.C.! And worse yet, the project has progressed to the point of acquiring the permits necessary to build the facility. Talk about an "Amber Alert"-- it takes my breath away! Would you please comment on this relationship between Larry King and Boys' Town, past and present?
NOREEN: We did learn within the last year that there are plans to build another Boys Town outside of Washington DC, I can only speculate that King is involved. He did go to Washington very shortly after his release from prison in April 2001. Msgr. Hupp, former director of Boys Town, hired John DeCamp to represent him, as he wanted to "tell everything he knew about Boys Town, King and Franklin". Within a couple months Msgr. Hupp was dead. When I met with him in 2004, he told me he was "afraid they were going to kill him for what he knew". Now he too is gone. Hupp contacted DeCamp a few months before he died. DeCamp said he died under unusual circumstances... I do not know what they were.
CHARLENE: In February of 1999 in Lincoln Nebraska, you were questioned by Plaintiff Paul Bonacci's attorney, John DeCamp, in the civil action Paul A. Bonacci vs Lawrence E. King, with Judge Warren K. Urbom presiding, and you revealed under oath the following :
"We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul, and they can verify everything that has happened. What this story involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK-Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the Cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us."
(...)
"... there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use [in] this experimentation on children. "...they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples, so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence. They used these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white."
Note: Noreen Gosch testimony culled from: Satanic subversion of the U.S. Military, by Jeffrey Steinberg:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_subversion.htm
Your testimony serves as an eloquent summary of the Johnny Gosch case and as a scathing indictment of government sponsored, pedophile operations. That's why I included it as part of this interview. My question, Noreen, is - how did Michael Aquino specifically fit into the Johnny Gosch kidnapping?
NOREEN: It was reported to me and given in Federal Court, February 1999, by Paul Bonacci, that "Michael Aquino ... called the "Colonel" was in fact the man who came to Iowa, paid the kidnappers for taking Johnny, then took Johnny with him. This took place 14 days after the kidnapping. Bonacci stated this under oath in Federal Court. Judge Urbom ruled Bonacci was telling the truth.
CHARLENE: In your opinion why did Judge Urbom find Paul Bonacci and the overall evidence John DeCamp presented to the court so compelling?
NOREEN: It was very surprising to us that Judge Urbom would allow this process to take place, since he was the same Judge that stated he thought Bonacci was nuts, not credible and not telling the truth. He did an "about face" ...
CHARLENE: Any clues, guesses as to why Judge Urbom changed his mind so abruptly? You certainly found Paul Bonacci credible. Why?
NOREEN: I have no idea why Judge Urbom changed his mind, it still baffles all of us including John DeCamp. Paul Bonacci's information-- we have been able to research, verify and prove the things he told us. This was done by a private investigator that John De Camp hired years ago in 1989 through 2000.
CHARLENE: Could you connect the dots between brain wave frequencies, codes, multi- personality disorder, and MK-ULTRA as it relates to organized pedophilia?
NOREEN: The mind control works similar to hypnosis only to much deeper levels. They program at Alpha, Beta, Theta and beyond to Omega level of brain wave frequency the desired instructions for later use. During the training/programming there is a technique where by the victim ... is split and new personalities with identities are created for desired purposes. They can be activated by a "key word, song, verbal suggestion" the mind control victim will then go into what I would call an "automatic pilot" situation and act out exactly what has been programmed in the individual.
CHARLENE: Was the program called Project Monarch? Didn't Bonacci's diary contain pages and pages of codes?
NOREEN: Yes it was called Project Monarch and Bonacci had 4 or 5 diaries with coding in it, step by step instructions on constructing a bomb etc. And an account of all his abuses.
CHARLENE: Paul Bonacci won the case. Judge Urbom ruled that Lawrence E. King was to pay Paul Bonacci one million dollars in damages. Although Mr. Bonacci has yet to collect a penny of this hard won judgment, Paul Bonacci's court victory, especially what he conveyed about his role in Johnny Gosch's abduction, has given your investigation into Johnny's disappearance and organized pedophilia more credibility. You've been in touch off and on with Paul Bonacci since 1999. He's told you things about Johnny's appearance, changes that Johnny has made to his person that are congruent with Jeff Gannon's appearance. What did he tell you, and when? Are you still in touch with him?
NOREEN: We are still periodically in touch with Bonacci, but he has not made any reference to Gannon. He has stated he is in touch with Johnny, I believe on a somewhat regular basis. From time to time he would give me messages from Johnny. This was prior to Gannon appearing on the scene. Since Gannongate... there has been no more info on Johnny from Bonacci.
CHARLENE: As part of the research for your book, Why Johnny Can't Come Home, you invoked the FOIA (freedom of information act) and requested a paper written by Michael Aquino called: "From PsyOps to
Mind War, the Success of Victory". The government refused your
request based on so-called NATIONAL SECURITY. I've read although Aquino's paper was never officially published in any journals, it nevertheless enjoyed a measure of popularity as, allegedly, it was widely circulated in government/military circles. Fortunately, you managed to obtain a copy. What was the relevance of this document to the Johnny Gosch case and perhaps to all of us today?
NOREEN: This document written by Michael Aquino outlined the project of using "mind controlling" techniques. It spelled out how it was to be done. In researching for my book, I tried to access it as I had done with other reports on the internet. I received a message saying I would have to file a FOIA request. I filled out the paperwork, sent it and approximately 3 weeks later I received a letter from the National Security Agency that it would be a risk to National Security to release that information to me.
CHARLENE: Were these mind control techniques to be used on Americans? Who was to administer the mind control and for what reason?
NOREEN: Yes, the mind control techniques were to be used on Americans, most all of it was of military purposes ... they experimented on prisoners, service men and branched out to runaway children, then finally kidnapping children for this purpose.
CHARLENE: The "spookiest" story is how you procured that copy of Aquino's: "From PsyOps to Mind War, the Success of Victory". It's beyond amazing how the person who eventually sent you this document KNEW that you had been trying to get a copy of it from the government. How could this information leak out? Please explain.
NOREEN: Several weeks after receiving the letter from the NSA, I received a phone call from Linda Blood
(former girlfriend of Aquino) she said "I understand you tried to get a copy of a report written by Michael Aquino and instead got a letter from the "NSA". I said "how would you know that"? She replied, "I know a lot of things... would you like a copy, I have one and will mail it to you". She did... and that is how I received it. I think Michael told her I had tried to get and put her up to calling me for some reason.
CHARLENE: So now there is a devious scheme to steal your book. A Mr. Zielinski is using the legal system to attempt to intimidate you and steal your remaining book inventory, as well as seize the reprinting rights to your self-published book: Why Johnny Can't Come Home. John Zielinski is a published author of primarily books on the Amish. Where, when, and under what circumstances did you FIRST meet Mr. Zielinski?
NOREEN: This is the most OUTRAGEOUS situation yet. To think someone would try to take control of my book inventory and the reprint right is unthinkable, not to mention the height of cruelty. This book is not a "big money maker". It is not a Harry Potter type book with huge popularity. It is a book designed to tell the story of my son, to help educate others and protect children. The revenue keeps the expenses paid on the Johnny Gosch Foundation and this idiot wants to try and take it from me. It is unthinkable.
CHARLENE: When did Mr. Zielinski, first call you and ask you If you were planning on writing a book about Johnny's abduction?
NOREEN: I first met Zielinski when he called our home and asked to do an interview. He said he was a journalist. I did the interview just as I had with many other journalists. I didn't hear from him again until Nov. 1999, he began calling repeatedly to my office, asking when I was going to write my book. I told him the book was in progress. I began writing my book in 1984.
CHARLENE: I find it odd that Mr. Zielinski contacted you and forthrightly asked you if you were planning on covering information about the CIA created MK-ULTRA program in your book. Why do you think an author of Amish books would be so interested in MK-ULTRA?
NOREEN: Zielinski had a legal issue with Sutherland Publishing company in Iowa. There was a court trial over the rights to a book on the Amish which Zielinski claimed to have written. Sutherland won the case, a $25,000 judgment was placed against Zielinski and he was banned from ever publishing another book in the State of Iowa under his own name. I think he just wanted to "ride on the coat tails of the Johnny Gosch case". He did ask if I was going to include info on the MK-ULTRA. I said yes... I have a great deal of info on it.
CHARLENE: Is it accurate to say Mr. Zielinski was impressing you with his ability to do research, extract information and cite sources from books in his personal library about MK-ULTRA? He surely is no expert on MK-ULTRA. Were these books out of print, extremely esoteric, or in some way not easily available to you other than through him?
NOREEN: Zielinski said he had some more material on MK-ULTRA and thought it should be included in the book. He offered to do some research on MK-ULTRA.
CHARLENE: How much material for your book on the subject of MK-ULTRA did he actually provide?
NOREEN: He only provided a few paragraphs in a couple chapters. The info in those paragraphs were taken from other books written by other authors, and I listed credit to those authors for each entry in my book.
CHARLENE: And now he claims, in his lawsuit against you, that he wrote the entire book for you and spent 12,000 hours on the project? How much research time did he actually spend on your book?
NOREEN: His claims are absolutely absurd and a complete lie. I have many witnesses to my statements and proof the book is mine. It is a chronological account of my search for my son. It is my son, my story and my book. He only worked a short time on the research. I have no idea where he drummed this outrageous number of hours he claims to have spent on the project.
CHARLENE: Can you explain the payment or other compensation arrangement you hammered out with Mr. Zielinski, including the remuneration he readily agreed to. Am I correct in assuming Zielinski refused to put the agreement in writing, although you had repeatedly requested a signed contract?
NOREEN: When Zielinski wanted to be involved in some research. I asked him what he wanted for this. He said, "I only want my expenses covered while I am in Des Moines". He also stated this before 5 witnesses. He refused to sign any written agreement to this effect. I repeatedly asked him to sign an agreement so we would be clear on this issue. I should have thrown him out of my office right then. But I didn't know he had such sinister plan in the back of his mind.
CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski arrived to work with you at the end of May in 2000. Your book was finished and sent to the publisher in September of 2000. You, in fact, did the layout for your book by learning how to use the Pagemaker program on your own. Yet, Mr. Zielinski proclaims that he did it all, he wrote the entire book, he did the layout, and he originated the idea of doing a book on Johnny Gosch's kidnapping in the first place. Last but not least, he claims the book title was his idea, too. Please comment.
NOREEN: Yes, he is now going around telling anyone who will listen that he did it all and the whole idea for the book was his. This again is another example of an absurd lie. The book was started in 1983... within a couple months after Johnny was kidnapped.... Decades before I ever heard of Zielinski.
CHARLENE: Isn't it true, after Mr. Zielinski started working for you he tried several times to take over the ENTIRE book project. It got so bad that on one occasion you had to ask him to leave your home? You warned him that you wouldn't work with him any longer if he continued to disregard the fact that this was YOUR project and that it was YOUR book. Is that true? Then what happened?
NOREEN: Yes, I did have to tell him to leave my home on several occasions. He would begin to "yell and scream that he wanted me to do something a certain way ... stating he was an expert because he authored books on the Amish". I reminded him that it was "my son, my story and my book and if he didn't settle down he had to get out of my home and the project". He also on occasion would want to "rub my back, rub my feet, saying I should let him do what he did best". That was the last straw... I told him to get out and stay out. There was no way I was going to put up with that type of behavior in my own home/office.
CHARLENE: In October of 2000, you were invited to be a guest speaker at a National Private Investigators Conference, which, luckily for you, was to be held in your hometown of Des Moines, Iowa. Mr. Zielinski found out about the conference and wanted to attend as a guest, so you graciously arranged for him to attend. The Johnny Gosh Story was slated to be the primary focus of the conference, though not the only topic. NBC Dateline had agreed to film the conference, which would have provided free national publicity for your self-published book. The Johnny Gosh story would have finally received the National attention it deserved. This kind of prime time TV exposure had the potential to help countless other missing children and their hapless families across America. Knowledge is power. Your book is a powerful
tool. So I'd say this was the chance of a lifetime. But something went terribly wrong. And that something was Mr. Zielinski. Please explain.
NOREEN: Zielinski while sitting in the audience of this gathering of P.I's began shouting comments to the moderator and speakers on stage. He was told to keep quiet several times. He created a huge disturbance and it was unfortunately being filmed by NBC Dateline. After his asinine performance, Dateline informed me that they were pulling out of the project and they would not do my story and I lost any chance of National publicity for my book on TV
CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski knowingly or unknowingly sabotaged your golden opportunity with NBC Dateline. Yet even after that debacle, Mr. Zielinski unexpectedly paid you a visit and presented you with a legal document to sign--a demand letter. Wasn't he insisting that you owed him something like $18,000? Never mind the fact that you had already paid out-of-pocket for his living arrangements and food during the time he worked on your book-- per a prearranged agreement! Adding insult to injury, he proceeded to casually inform you he had a son, who will soon be graduating from law school. And then he tells you, it was his son who had advised him that his legal rights had been violated by you. Zielinski continued to intimidate you into signing his spurious document, while you firmly stood your ground and politely refused. I understand he also asked for copies of your book (to resell) and you graciously said okay? Didn't your husband box about a $1000 worth (retail) of books for Mr. Zielinski that night, which he accepted? Please elaborate.
NOREEN: Zielinski's expenses were paid by me during the few months he was in Des Moines, I worked nights after I worked on the book all day in order to pay his expenses, plus my own bills. Zielinski has lied about every aspect of his involvement on this project. He has in the past done this very thing to another individual, John Swanson, a film/video maker. They worked together on a video of Amish nature. Mr. Swanson was bilked for thousands of dollars by Zielinski. Mr. Swanson has given us a full accounting of what took place. Zielinski has made a life practice of living off of other people. He has not held a job in 30 years... claims he is a full time author, and it is beneath him to hold a job. He also informed me he is invisible in this country concerning the IRS and Social Security Administration. He has not filed or paid into SS in 30 years. I feel that now he is 62 years of age, he intended to make me and the Johnny Gosch Foundation his "401 K plan".
CHARLENE: That's the last you had heard from Mr. Zielinski, until out of the blue in December 2004 you got a call from your attorney saying Mr. Zielinski is suing you and we (you and your attorney) only have four days to respond. Wisely, you requested that your attorney immediately ask for an extension, as a four day time frame was out of the question. You knew it would have been impossible to contact your witnesses, let alone prepare a defense on such short notice. I understand your attorney told you he didn't believe you'd get an extension and didn't want to ask for one. It was only due to your insistence that your attorney reluctantly acquiesced and finally got the extension. What were the key issues behind Zielinski's lawsuit? How much was he asking for supposed damages.
NOREEN: Zielinski is now asking for $24,000 and they tried to settle out of court for the remaining inventory and reprint rights. That is out of the question and so is the $24,000. I lived up to my responsibility... I paid all his expenses, food, and gave him books in 2000. Now he comes prancing in with his son the "new lawyer" and goes after me in a law suit. I believe this is probably his son's first case and they want to "clean up". He somehow has repeated his lies so many times that he now believes them.
CHARLENE: Next your attorney phones to tell you Zielinski wants to settle out of court. And this is where the story reminds me of an episode from the Twilight Zone. Your attorney's reaction to the settlement offer and his legal advice regarding the settlement is well, from a layman's perspective, totally against your best interests legal and otherwise! And that's putting it mildly. Explain the settlement offer, and include what you told your attorney your final decision is about Zielinski's settlement offer, and your attorney's reaction to your decision.
NOREEN: I was very disappointed that my attorney said it was a "good deal" to give Zielinski the remainder of all my books and the reprint rights. The only person it is a good deal for is Zielinski... it would but the Johnny Gosch Foundation out of business. We have done good work for children for the past 22 years and this was build on integrity and hard work by me. I can not and will not allow Zielinski to that that away. My son's kidnapping should stand for something good in this country. This is too important.
CHARLENE: Has your attorney finally seen the light?! If not-- I'd probably fire him!
NOREEN: I am afraid he still feels the same way. I am working on another strategy of my own.
CHARLENE: The depositions that were taken for Zielinski vs Gosch were done on December 17th 2004. During the depositions you presented the plaintiff's attorney with a document your husband had prepared and Mr. Zielinski had signed in 2000. Please describe wh
–--
'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
Reg
(view)
The following is an interview with the mother of Johnny Gosch, a young boy who was kidnapped some 22 years ago. In a bizarre twist it appears that Johnny Gosch may have resurfaced in a big way, as Jeff Gannon. This interview is disturbing and I don't think you will be able to forget it after you read it.
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INTERVIEW WITH NOREEN GOSCH
CHARLENE: Isn't this the first time Jeff Gannon has publicly stated that he's not Johnny Gosch? Why now?
NOREEN: I think Gannon needs to continue the publicity and is now coming forward on the DNA only too keep somewhat of a spotlight on himself.
CHARLENE: Even though you've always publicly maintained that you didn't know if Jeff Gannon was Johnny Gosch, Gannon has threatened to sue you on three different occasions. Why? What types of contact have you had with Jeff Gannon?
NOREEN: I have had only email communication with Gannon. He threatened to sue me because I have stated " I do not know if Gannon is or is not Johnny". He claims that is throwing doubt in the minds of people who would otherwise say he is not Johnny. I would think he would want the DNA test and if he is not Johnny ... then state it publicly and be done with it.
CHARLENE: I understand there are some unique physical characteristics that Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch share. What are they?
NOREEN: There are many facial features and the basic structure of his face which are similar to Johnny. The color of his eyes and reports of a birthmark on Gannon is the same as Johnny's. I have not seen the birthmark however.
CHARLENE: For many internet researchers and bloggers, there appear to be numerous reasons to suspect that Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch are the same person. For starters, the name Jeff Gannon, seems be related to Johnny Gosh in a twisted sort of way. Would you explain the "name game" and how it relates to other "players" and Johnny?
NOREEN: It appears in all of the alias names Gannon has used that he kept the same initials as Johnny... JDG. Gannon also chose the last name of the Des Moines Register Editor at the time Johnny was kidnapped. There just seems to be a replay constantly of Johnny's initials or clues to link Gannon to parts of Johnny's life.
CHARLENE: Besides the physical attributes and JDG initials pattern, what other linkages/revelations between Gannon and Johnny have compelled you and your team to propose a DNA test be administered to Gannon in order to acheive closure on the Gannon/Gosch issue?
NOREEN: There have been two informants who have stated Gannon and Johnny are one in the same person. For me, the only way that could possibly be resolved is a DNA test. That is the reason my investigative team have asked for a DNA test.
CHARLENE: I understand you've verified that Johnny had plastic surgery about 4 years ago, and coincidentally he also started shaving his head around the same time.
NOREEN: Yes, long before Gannon surfaced, I had learned that Johnny had plastic surgery and begun to shave his head. So when Gannon did come on the scene... it was one more thing to consider.
CHARLENE: Not long ago, on an internet radio interview, I heard Rusty Nelson, Larry King's ex-private, pedophile-ring photographer speaking about, among other things, Jeff Gannon and Johnny Gosch. Unfortunately, Rusty Nelson's story is beyond the scope of this interview. Suffice it to say, in order to survive and out of sheer desperation, Rusty managed to escape from Larry King's clutches and is currently on the lam. Naturally, having been King's private photographer, Nelson knew Johnny. During the interview Nelson offered his opinion as to whether or not he thought Johnny Gosch was Jeff Gannon. To paraphrase, he volunteered that he felt close to certain that they were one and the same person. He followed up with an anecdotal story about having serendipitously bumped into Johnny Gosch, several years ago at a Farmer's Market--I can't recall where. It seems to me that Rusty Nelson is qualified to speculate on this matter. Were you aware of his conjecture? Have you been in contact with Rusty Nelson?
NOREEN: I have been in contact with Rusty and have known him for years. He has shared a great deal of information with us and testified in federal court in 1999 as to all of these events. He told me nearly 4 years ago that he had seen Johnny at the Farmer's Market in a particular city.
CHARLENE: As of late you've been in contact with the Franklin kids. These are the children from the Des Moines and Omaha area who were also abducted and MK-ULTRAED into Larry King's international, elite controlled, pedophile ring around the same time Johnny was. Some of these survivors are no doubt members of the original 83 children who came forward to testify about their horrific abuse in the Franklin Case. Of course, like Johnny these "children" are now approaching 40 years of age, but they are most likely developmentally arrested, to greater or lesser degrees, "emotionally frozen" at the age they were abducted and ritually traumatized. Can you share with us what these survivors, the victims of King's pedophile ring are telling you of their horrific ordeal and their feelings about the future?
NOREEN: I have been in touch with a number of the Franklin kids, many have shared information with me. They continue communication to this day. For a number of them, their lives have been broken as children who were victims of these crimes. It is true they are now all approaching 40 years of age. Many are "fed up... angry" about what happened to them and how their lives have been robbed. Some want to do something about it and others are still very afraid for themselves and their loved ones.
CHARLENE: I believe that you once said some of these survivors feel like they have been programmed to do something in the future, but they don't know what it is. It sounds like a group of "sleeper" Manchurian Candidate cells that could be activated at any time for evil purposes--no doubt. Could you explain?
NOREEN: It is a form of Manchurian Candidate....many feel these kids are programmed to be accessed/triggered for some future use or project.
CHARLENE: Many of these kids knew Johnny. Do some of the Franklin kids you've been in contact with believe Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch?
NOREEN: The majority of the Franklin kids I have been in contact with do believe Jeff Gannon is Johnny. Some say they have been in communication with him on a fairly regular basis. I would suspect this is done by email on computer rather than face to face meetings.
CHARLENE: On the Johnny Gosch Foundation website: http://www.johnnygosch.com --you describe Johnny as "Chameleon" like. Others have also characterized him as "Chameleon" like, including some of the surviving Franklin kids. Is it true that Jeff Gannon also described himself as "Chameleon" like?
NOREEN: Throughout this investigation, I have been trained as a Private Investigator... I listen for these "plays on words". The reference to Johnny being a Chameleon was given to me by seven of the Franklin kids I have known. I asked them why he was considered a "Chameleon". They all told me it was because Johnny was a "master of disguise". Gannon then began referring to himself as "the Chameleon". I find that to be significant... Could it be a coincidence...." co-incident" or was it given by Gannon as some kind of clue. Gannon has also stated he has "hidden in plain sight". Interesting idea.
CHARLENE: And then there's that pesky DNA test Gannon's been dodging... until now--maybe? It seems Gannon has a pattern of agreeing to submit to a DNA test, only later to refuse-- for one reason or another. Also, most people probably aren't aware that Gannon has repeatedly stipulated various conditions that need to be met by your team as part of his agreeing to a DNA test. Can you summarize the history of DNA negotiations with Gannon up to and including the current agreement?
NOREEN: In March 2005, shortly after this story broke about Gannon. I wrote to him by email (3 times) to ask him to "quietly agree to a DNA test" to resolve this situation. Gannon did not answer my emails. We then sent a gentleman representing me to Gannon's home to talk with him. Gannon answered the door, when the man asked him about a DNA and told he was there on behalf of the "woman in Iowa". Gannon slammed the door on the man.
We later were on a network TV show in which Gannon said he would take a DNA test. Only to later develop all kinds of stipulations:
1. That the results should be kept private (no problem there).
2. That I would be required to make a public statement saying he was not my son and sign documents agreeing not to ever mention his name in public.
3. That Gannon would publicly make some declarations of
"spiritual support" for me.
4. Finally, that Gannon go forward to be a "national speaker for Missing Children."
Some of these conditions were absurd.
To date... Gannon agreed to do the DNA on Michael Corbin's show then has stalled once again. The DNA test is now in limbo for a while.
CHARLENE: Did Gannon ever ask to be paid for taking a DNA test?
NOREEN: Yes at one time he stated he wanted to be paid big bucks for his "DNA SAMPLE". I rejected that idea but offered to pay for the actual test.
CHARLENE: As I recall, your longtime private investigator, Mr. Rothstein, who is a retired NYC Detective, is in charge of DNA negotiations/ logistics with Jeff Gannon. If Gannon actually follows through and submits to a DNA test, I'm sure Rothstein will ensure every step of the procedure is carefully monitored. Call me paranoid, but I would be suspicious of the results-- if there were any unsupervised gaps (breaks in the chain of evidence) between the blood being drawn and the DNA analysis. Even if the lab is reputable, elite sociopaths (people behind Gannon?) with unlimited power and money to burn always seem to find ways to derail these well intentioned, truth seeking investigations. I'm sure Mr. Rothstein is twenty steps ahead of me on this-- and has a plan in place to control as many variables as humanly possible so that Gannon's DNA test results will be bona fide. Can you comment?
NOREEN: Jim Rothstein has arranged for a reliable lab to do the DNA test. We have advised Gannon of this... He has refused to give us the name of his attorney so we can communicate with him to make arrangements.
CHARLENE: It seem obvious that Gannon is playing mind games with you regarding his willingness or lack there of to take a DNA test! And as you've astutely surmised, this on again off again DNA test scenario is free publicity for him. And I'm sure Gannon is more than capable of making good use of publicity, even if it's negative. On the other hand, if he is Johnny Gosch, taking a DNA test could undoubtedly put him in harms way. Then again, this DNA volleyball could be part of an overall cynical strategy by Gannon and his handlers to keep the "Gannon is Gosch" story alive, but essentially take the energy out of it. The story continues, it limps along, but in a vapid state of limbo. This way the character arc, the tension, the climax of the story can been shifted to fit an agenda. Maybe this game is a backdoor approach for Gannon to gain control of the "Is Gannon really Gosch" speculation frenzy. He knows the DNA ball will forever be in his court. If Gannon can keep the story focused at the level of a DNA test that's never resolved, and if he can keep the public's ATTENTION focused on forensics -- he's in control. And while he does his DNA dance, he can also threaten legal action against anyone who publicly wonders about the is "Gannon really Gosch" riddle -- it's a CHECKMATE of sorts.
CHARLENE: A local media outlet in your region about a month ago ran a piece on their internet site announcing that there had been a significant "breakthrough" in the Johnny Gosch case. I think they described it as: "Johnny Gosch case heating-up." Yet they never mentioned exactly what the breakthrough was! Or I just plain missed it. However, they did mention something about the CIA and their alleged involvement in organized pedophilia. What happened to the CIA agent who had contacted you in order to help you crack the Johnny Gosch case years ago, and who was instrumental in your testifying before a Congressional Committee? What was the "breakthrough" in Johnny's case?
NOREEN: The CIA agent who has resurfaced recently has brought information to Jim Rothstein which is significant at this time. Jim shared a portion of it, which the Waterloo, Iowa TV station reported on. It was then circulated throughout the internet. He informed us that originally 1700 children were targeted for this project... they (pedophile ring) set about kidnapping children throughout the country over a period of years. The number of "usable children" they ended up with was approximately 1,000. I filed a FIOA request and received a reply saying "All records on Johnny's case with the CIA have vanished."
CHARLENE: After all these years, a fearful eye-witness finally came forward and detailed what really had happened to Johnny Gosch on the day he was kidnapped. He illuminated a crucial, hidden aspect of Johnny's abduction. He knew Johnny wasn't a runaway, he had watched Johnny's abduction unfold from a window in the safety of his home. What's the significance of this new revelation after all these years? Could this new eye-witness report officially reopen the Johnny Gosch case?
NOREEN: We learned 22 years later that the only eye-witness to the kidnapping was forced to change his story years ago by the police chief. He saw a man shoot Johnny with a stun gun, saw him fall, then be thrown into the back seat of a waiting car. The witness instead stated he only heard the slamming of a car door. By the changing of the story 22 years later, it allowed the Police chief, Orval Cooney deniability and then call Johnny a "runaway child" instead of "kidnapped child". We also later learned the same police chief had been attending the sex parties in Omaha Nebraska with the Franklin kids, so it is no mystery why he was trying to "bury the Johnny Gosch story/case". The police say the case remains open to this day...but when I approached them with this information... they say " we are not going to try and reinvent the wheel". A cute way of sidestepping the issue. We are discussing possibilities of legal recourse but have not made a decision as yet.
CHARLENE: There's been some disturbing incidents and strange, synchronistic events involving you and others, who were or are connected to the Johnny Gosch case. Recently, there was your yearly Johnny Gosch "update" interview with a local radio host, a seasoned, nine year veteran, who was subsequently fired. Not long after the update interview, a strange doll was delivered to your door. And then, about two days later, you heard some distressing news on the radio about a man who had revealed to you important information about your local Police Chief and Johnny's kidnapping. Comments?
NOREEN: Marty Stacey, an Omaha radio talk show host, did an interview with me and Jim Rothstein. During the interview, we shared the information in the question/answer above regarding the police chief being involved in this scandal. The following day Marty was called in by his boss and fired... the reason given was the "Gosch/Rothstein interview". The following morning someone placed an "anatomically correct, blow up, nude sex doll with dark hair and a hole blown in the head at the door of my home". No one saw it being placed there. The police were called and I made a police report on the situation. We consider this to be a "veiled" threat towards me regarding the information that I gave during the interview.
CHARLENE: How many and what types of other threats and or harassment have you experienced prior to the doll incident?
NOREEN: Over the years I have been followed, received threatening phone calls, had men come to my home and pound on the outside of my house, throw rocks at my home. My cars have been damaged. It has been a very nerve wracking situation and one has to wonder, why would anyone harass the mother of a missing child ..... just for looking for her child? It is because there is much more to this crime and they are afraid I will uncover it and make it ALL PUBLIC.
CHARLENE: Is there an official/unofficial body-count related to the Franklin/Johnny Gosch case?
NOREEN: The official body count for deaths in the Franklin/Johnny case is now up to 15 deaths of witnesses and people who have come forward with information.
CHARLENE: From what you and your investigators have discovered, what have you determined about how organized pedophile rings function? For example, is it true that these rings hire professional photographers to surreptitiously photograph children, and then compile these photos into catalogues so "clients" can choose their preferred victims?
NOREEN: In August 1984, I testified at a Senate Hearing in Washington DC. It was an Organized Crime hearing regarding Missing Children. During the various testimony by myself and others, Ken Lanning of the FBI, also testified. The FBI also provided a catalog of materials confiscated by them during the arrest of pedophiles. There were instruction books on molesting children, torture devices and a catalog of children who had not yet been kidnapped. A prospective "BUYERS GUIDE".
CHARLENE: On a more personal note, I worked at a Rape Crisis Center, in the early 90's as a psychotherapist, as an advocate for sexual abuse victims, as well as directing and coordinating a Children's SafeHouse. The SafeHouse was a specially prepared room in the center where we forensically interviewed sexually abused children in order to provide evidence to hopefully prosecute perpetrators directly or use the evidence to extract confessions and then prosecute. Sadly, there was an appalling number of sexually abused children who were routinely referred to the center, for therapy and Safe-House interviews. And guess what? ORGANIZED PEDOPHILE RINGS WERE NEVER MENTIONED--EVER! All the standard, official literature about pedophilia was contained to sick individuals acting alone. I seriously doubt if that has changed. The Johnny Gosch case and others like it were NEVER mentioned. And we at the center were considered to be among cutting edge sexual abuse specialists, educators and therapists. Rape Crisis centers and police departments around the country should be buying box loads of your books. Are they?
NOREEN: What we uncovered 22 years ago was that many pedophile rings are operative in this country. No one wanted to hear this information at that time. Now we hear it in the form of "human trafficking". We have a task force created in Washington DC working on this very degree of "high crime". My book is helpful for people, as this outlines from the beginning how Johnny's kidnapping transpired and it will help others protect their children.
CHARLENE: Why do you think so few American's know the truth about the Johnny Gosch case? Why do you think organized pedophilia operates under-the-radar, while depraved, lone nutters or sick relatives who commit single or serial acts of pedophilia are splashed all over the mainstream tabloids and newspapers?
NOREEN: It may appear that many people do not know about Johnny's case but there has been visitors from all over the world to my
website.... http://www.johnnygosch.com. Some of the countries were France, England, Japan, China, Russia, Argentina, Greece, Italy, not to mention all over the United States. It is not in the main stream media now because it is not a "new case". During the early years there was a lot of press coverage, but older cases have to move over to make room for the new ones.
CHARLENE: Do you know how high up in government and corporate circles the pedophile ring Larry King was operating reached?
NOREEN: I only know he had high political connections in the Republican party and had "friends in high places" so to speak.
CHARLENE: From my research, it appears organized pedophilia is more rampant than ever. It's international in scope, and it's a multi-billion dollar growth industry. Please comment.
NOREEN: Pedophilia, kiddie porn and child prostitution is a multi-billion dollar business. The only reason we have it to this degree is "supply and demand and supply and demand". We have many high level wealthy pedophiles. The only difference between a rich and poor pedophile is: The poor pedophile must kidnap his own victims...while the rich one can afford to have his victims brought to him." It sounds so simplistic but it is true.
CHARLENE: Was it John DeCamp who had informed you that after Larry King was released from Federal Prison in 2001, he had a plum position waiting for him somewhere within the ranks of the Republican Party? Larry King had been famously characterized in the old days as: "the fastest rising black star in the Republican Party." Often overlooked is the fact that King was found guilty of financial crimes ONLY while he was head honcho at the Franklin Community Credit Union. It's common knowledge that the Credit Union collapsed due to massive financial irregularities, but it's uncommon knowledge that King was never charged, and should have been, for his after hours pedophile and money laundering activities while using the same credit union as a front. So it would be no surprise to me if King had quietly resumed his secret lifestyle as a pedophile kingpin, and is once again living a life of privilege and power behind the scenes in Washington D.C., hosting late night pedophile parties in some elegant mansion along Embassy Row, as he did before.
And then there's this:
According to the June 1989 "above the crease", SIZZLING front page article in the Washington Times, and later verified in court by Paul Bonacci, the White House has allegedly also hosted several of these "after hours" parties. I've read that King has had close ties with Boy's Town since 1979. I've heard through the grapevine that Larry King has recently met with Boys Town officials from Omaha with plans to help
create another Boys Town on the outskirts of Washington, D.C.! And worse yet, the project has progressed to the point of acquiring the permits necessary to build the facility. Talk about an "Amber Alert"-- it takes my breath away! Would you please comment on this relationship between Larry King and Boys' Town, past and present?
NOREEN: We did learn within the last year that there are plans to build another Boys Town outside of Washington DC, I can only speculate that King is involved. He did go to Washington very shortly after his release from prison in April 2001. Msgr. Hupp, former director of Boys Town, hired John DeCamp to represent him, as he wanted to "tell everything he knew about Boys Town, King and Franklin". Within a couple months Msgr. Hupp was dead. When I met with him in 2004, he told me he was "afraid they were going to kill him for what he knew". Now he too is gone. Hupp contacted DeCamp a few months before he died. DeCamp said he died under unusual circumstances... I do not know what they were.
CHARLENE: In February of 1999 in Lincoln Nebraska, you were questioned by Plaintiff Paul Bonacci's attorney, John DeCamp, in the civil action Paul A. Bonacci vs Lawrence E. King, with Judge Warren K. Urbom presiding, and you revealed under oath the following :
"We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul, and they can verify everything that has happened. What this story involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK-Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the Cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us."
(...)
"... there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use [in] this experimentation on children. "...they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples, so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence. They used these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white."
Note: Noreen Gosch testimony culled from: Satanic subversion of the U.S. Military, by Jeffrey Steinberg:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/satanic_subversion.htm
Your testimony serves as an eloquent summary of the Johnny Gosch case and as a scathing indictment of government sponsored, pedophile operations. That's why I included it as part of this interview. My question, Noreen, is - how did Michael Aquino specifically fit into the Johnny Gosch kidnapping?
NOREEN: It was reported to me and given in Federal Court, February 1999, by Paul Bonacci, that "Michael Aquino ... called the "Colonel" was in fact the man who came to Iowa, paid the kidnappers for taking Johnny, then took Johnny with him. This took place 14 days after the kidnapping. Bonacci stated this under oath in Federal Court. Judge Urbom ruled Bonacci was telling the truth.
CHARLENE: In your opinion why did Judge Urbom find Paul Bonacci and the overall evidence John DeCamp presented to the court so compelling?
NOREEN: It was very surprising to us that Judge Urbom would allow this process to take place, since he was the same Judge that stated he thought Bonacci was nuts, not credible and not telling the truth. He did an "about face" ...
CHARLENE: Any clues, guesses as to why Judge Urbom changed his mind so abruptly? You certainly found Paul Bonacci credible. Why?
NOREEN: I have no idea why Judge Urbom changed his mind, it still baffles all of us including John DeCamp. Paul Bonacci's information-- we have been able to research, verify and prove the things he told us. This was done by a private investigator that John De Camp hired years ago in 1989 through 2000.
CHARLENE: Could you connect the dots between brain wave frequencies, codes, multi- personality disorder, and MK-ULTRA as it relates to organized pedophilia?
NOREEN: The mind control works similar to hypnosis only to much deeper levels. They program at Alpha, Beta, Theta and beyond to Omega level of brain wave frequency the desired instructions for later use. During the training/programming there is a technique where by the victim ... is split and new personalities with identities are created for desired purposes. They can be activated by a "key word, song, verbal suggestion" the mind control victim will then go into what I would call an "automatic pilot" situation and act out exactly what has been programmed in the individual.
CHARLENE: Was the program called Project Monarch? Didn't Bonacci's diary contain pages and pages of codes?
NOREEN: Yes it was called Project Monarch and Bonacci had 4 or 5 diaries with coding in it, step by step instructions on constructing a bomb etc. And an account of all his abuses.
CHARLENE: Paul Bonacci won the case. Judge Urbom ruled that Lawrence E. King was to pay Paul Bonacci one million dollars in damages. Although Mr. Bonacci has yet to collect a penny of this hard won judgment, Paul Bonacci's court victory, especially what he conveyed about his role in Johnny Gosch's abduction, has given your investigation into Johnny's disappearance and organized pedophilia more credibility. You've been in touch off and on with Paul Bonacci since 1999. He's told you things about Johnny's appearance, changes that Johnny has made to his person that are congruent with Jeff Gannon's appearance. What did he tell you, and when? Are you still in touch with him?
NOREEN: We are still periodically in touch with Bonacci, but he has not made any reference to Gannon. He has stated he is in touch with Johnny, I believe on a somewhat regular basis. From time to time he would give me messages from Johnny. This was prior to Gannon appearing on the scene. Since Gannongate... there has been no more info on Johnny from Bonacci.
CHARLENE: As part of the research for your book, Why Johnny Can't Come Home, you invoked the FOIA (freedom of information act) and requested a paper written by Michael Aquino called: "From PsyOps to
Mind War, the Success of Victory". The government refused your
request based on so-called NATIONAL SECURITY. I've read although Aquino's paper was never officially published in any journals, it nevertheless enjoyed a measure of popularity as, allegedly, it was widely circulated in government/military circles. Fortunately, you managed to obtain a copy. What was the relevance of this document to the Johnny Gosch case and perhaps to all of us today?
NOREEN: This document written by Michael Aquino outlined the project of using "mind controlling" techniques. It spelled out how it was to be done. In researching for my book, I tried to access it as I had done with other reports on the internet. I received a message saying I would have to file a FOIA request. I filled out the paperwork, sent it and approximately 3 weeks later I received a letter from the National Security Agency that it would be a risk to National Security to release that information to me.
CHARLENE: Were these mind control techniques to be used on Americans? Who was to administer the mind control and for what reason?
NOREEN: Yes, the mind control techniques were to be used on Americans, most all of it was of military purposes ... they experimented on prisoners, service men and branched out to runaway children, then finally kidnapping children for this purpose.
CHARLENE: The "spookiest" story is how you procured that copy of Aquino's: "From PsyOps to Mind War, the Success of Victory". It's beyond amazing how the person who eventually sent you this document KNEW that you had been trying to get a copy of it from the government. How could this information leak out? Please explain.
NOREEN: Several weeks after receiving the letter from the NSA, I received a phone call from Linda Blood
(former girlfriend of Aquino) she said "I understand you tried to get a copy of a report written by Michael Aquino and instead got a letter from the "NSA". I said "how would you know that"? She replied, "I know a lot of things... would you like a copy, I have one and will mail it to you". She did... and that is how I received it. I think Michael told her I had tried to get and put her up to calling me for some reason.
CHARLENE: So now there is a devious scheme to steal your book. A Mr. Zielinski is using the legal system to attempt to intimidate you and steal your remaining book inventory, as well as seize the reprinting rights to your self-published book: Why Johnny Can't Come Home. John Zielinski is a published author of primarily books on the Amish. Where, when, and under what circumstances did you FIRST meet Mr. Zielinski?
NOREEN: This is the most OUTRAGEOUS situation yet. To think someone would try to take control of my book inventory and the reprint right is unthinkable, not to mention the height of cruelty. This book is not a "big money maker". It is not a Harry Potter type book with huge popularity. It is a book designed to tell the story of my son, to help educate others and protect children. The revenue keeps the expenses paid on the Johnny Gosch Foundation and this idiot wants to try and take it from me. It is unthinkable.
CHARLENE: When did Mr. Zielinski, first call you and ask you If you were planning on writing a book about Johnny's abduction?
NOREEN: I first met Zielinski when he called our home and asked to do an interview. He said he was a journalist. I did the interview just as I had with many other journalists. I didn't hear from him again until Nov. 1999, he began calling repeatedly to my office, asking when I was going to write my book. I told him the book was in progress. I began writing my book in 1984.
CHARLENE: I find it odd that Mr. Zielinski contacted you and forthrightly asked you if you were planning on covering information about the CIA created MK-ULTRA program in your book. Why do you think an author of Amish books would be so interested in MK-ULTRA?
NOREEN: Zielinski had a legal issue with Sutherland Publishing company in Iowa. There was a court trial over the rights to a book on the Amish which Zielinski claimed to have written. Sutherland won the case, a $25,000 judgment was placed against Zielinski and he was banned from ever publishing another book in the State of Iowa under his own name. I think he just wanted to "ride on the coat tails of the Johnny Gosch case". He did ask if I was going to include info on the MK-ULTRA. I said yes... I have a great deal of info on it.
CHARLENE: Is it accurate to say Mr. Zielinski was impressing you with his ability to do research, extract information and cite sources from books in his personal library about MK-ULTRA? He surely is no expert on MK-ULTRA. Were these books out of print, extremely esoteric, or in some way not easily available to you other than through him?
NOREEN: Zielinski said he had some more material on MK-ULTRA and thought it should be included in the book. He offered to do some research on MK-ULTRA.
CHARLENE: How much material for your book on the subject of MK-ULTRA did he actually provide?
NOREEN: He only provided a few paragraphs in a couple chapters. The info in those paragraphs were taken from other books written by other authors, and I listed credit to those authors for each entry in my book.
CHARLENE: And now he claims, in his lawsuit against you, that he wrote the entire book for you and spent 12,000 hours on the project? How much research time did he actually spend on your book?
NOREEN: His claims are absolutely absurd and a complete lie. I have many witnesses to my statements and proof the book is mine. It is a chronological account of my search for my son. It is my son, my story and my book. He only worked a short time on the research. I have no idea where he drummed this outrageous number of hours he claims to have spent on the project.
CHARLENE: Can you explain the payment or other compensation arrangement you hammered out with Mr. Zielinski, including the remuneration he readily agreed to. Am I correct in assuming Zielinski refused to put the agreement in writing, although you had repeatedly requested a signed contract?
NOREEN: When Zielinski wanted to be involved in some research. I asked him what he wanted for this. He said, "I only want my expenses covered while I am in Des Moines". He also stated this before 5 witnesses. He refused to sign any written agreement to this effect. I repeatedly asked him to sign an agreement so we would be clear on this issue. I should have thrown him out of my office right then. But I didn't know he had such sinister plan in the back of his mind.
CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski arrived to work with you at the end of May in 2000. Your book was finished and sent to the publisher in September of 2000. You, in fact, did the layout for your book by learning how to use the Pagemaker program on your own. Yet, Mr. Zielinski proclaims that he did it all, he wrote the entire book, he did the layout, and he originated the idea of doing a book on Johnny Gosch's kidnapping in the first place. Last but not least, he claims the book title was his idea, too. Please comment.
NOREEN: Yes, he is now going around telling anyone who will listen that he did it all and the whole idea for the book was his. This again is another example of an absurd lie. The book was started in 1983... within a couple months after Johnny was kidnapped.... Decades before I ever heard of Zielinski.
CHARLENE: Isn't it true, after Mr. Zielinski started working for you he tried several times to take over the ENTIRE book project. It got so bad that on one occasion you had to ask him to leave your home? You warned him that you wouldn't work with him any longer if he continued to disregard the fact that this was YOUR project and that it was YOUR book. Is that true? Then what happened?
NOREEN: Yes, I did have to tell him to leave my home on several occasions. He would begin to "yell and scream that he wanted me to do something a certain way ... stating he was an expert because he authored books on the Amish". I reminded him that it was "my son, my story and my book and if he didn't settle down he had to get out of my home and the project". He also on occasion would want to "rub my back, rub my feet, saying I should let him do what he did best". That was the last straw... I told him to get out and stay out. There was no way I was going to put up with that type of behavior in my own home/office.
CHARLENE: In October of 2000, you were invited to be a guest speaker at a National Private Investigators Conference, which, luckily for you, was to be held in your hometown of Des Moines, Iowa. Mr. Zielinski found out about the conference and wanted to attend as a guest, so you graciously arranged for him to attend. The Johnny Gosh Story was slated to be the primary focus of the conference, though not the only topic. NBC Dateline had agreed to film the conference, which would have provided free national publicity for your self-published book. The Johnny Gosh story would have finally received the National attention it deserved. This kind of prime time TV exposure had the potential to help countless other missing children and their hapless families across America. Knowledge is power. Your book is a powerful
tool. So I'd say this was the chance of a lifetime. But something went terribly wrong. And that something was Mr. Zielinski. Please explain.
NOREEN: Zielinski while sitting in the audience of this gathering of P.I's began shouting comments to the moderator and speakers on stage. He was told to keep quiet several times. He created a huge disturbance and it was unfortunately being filmed by NBC Dateline. After his asinine performance, Dateline informed me that they were pulling out of the project and they would not do my story and I lost any chance of National publicity for my book on TV
CHARLENE: Mr. Zielinski knowingly or unknowingly sabotaged your golden opportunity with NBC Dateline. Yet even after that debacle, Mr. Zielinski unexpectedly paid you a visit and presented you with a legal document to sign--a demand letter. Wasn't he insisting that you owed him something like $18,000? Never mind the fact that you had already paid out-of-pocket for his living arrangements and food during the time he worked on your book-- per a prearranged agreement! Adding insult to injury, he proceeded to casually inform you he had a son, who will soon be graduating from law school. And then he tells you, it was his son who had advised him that his legal rights had been violated by you. Zielinski continued to intimidate you into signing his spurious document, while you firmly stood your ground and politely refused. I understand he also asked for copies of your book (to resell) and you graciously said okay? Didn't your husband box about a $1000 worth (retail) of books for Mr. Zielinski that night, which he accepted? Please elaborate.
NOREEN: Zielinski's expenses were paid by me during the few months he was in Des Moines, I worked nights after I worked on the book all day in order to pay his expenses, plus my own bills. Zielinski has lied about every aspect of his involvement on this project. He has in the past done this very thing to another individual, John Swanson, a film/video maker. They worked together on a video of Amish nature. Mr. Swanson was bilked for thousands of dollars by Zielinski. Mr. Swanson has given us a full accounting of what took place. Zielinski has made a life practice of living off of other people. He has not held a job in 30 years... claims he is a full time author, and it is beneath him to hold a job. He also informed me he is invisible in this country concerning the IRS and Social Security Administration. He has not filed or paid into SS in 30 years. I feel that now he is 62 years of age, he intended to make me and the Johnny Gosch Foundation his "401 K plan".
CHARLENE: That's the last you had heard from Mr. Zielinski, until out of the blue in December 2004 you got a call from your attorney saying Mr. Zielinski is suing you and we (you and your attorney) only have four days to respond. Wisely, you requested that your attorney immediately ask for an extension, as a four day time frame was out of the question. You knew it would have been impossible to contact your witnesses, let alone prepare a defense on such short notice. I understand your attorney told you he didn't believe you'd get an extension and didn't want to ask for one. It was only due to your insistence that your attorney reluctantly acquiesced and finally got the extension. What were the key issues behind Zielinski's lawsuit? How much was he asking for supposed damages.
NOREEN: Zielinski is now asking for $24,000 and they tried to settle out of court for the remaining inventory and reprint rights. That is out of the question and so is the $24,000. I lived up to my responsibility... I paid all his expenses, food, and gave him books in 2000. Now he comes prancing in with his son the "new lawyer" and goes after me in a law suit. I believe this is probably his son's first case and they want to "clean up". He somehow has repeated his lies so many times that he now believes them.
CHARLENE: Next your attorney phones to tell you Zielinski wants to settle out of court. And this is where the story reminds me of an episode from the Twilight Zone. Your attorney's reaction to the settlement offer and his legal advice regarding the settlement is well, from a layman's perspective, totally against your best interests legal and otherwise! And that's putting it mildly. Explain the settlement offer, and include what you told your attorney your final decision is about Zielinski's settlement offer, and your attorney's reaction to your decision.
NOREEN: I was very disappointed that my attorney said it was a "good deal" to give Zielinski the remainder of all my books and the reprint rights. The only person it is a good deal for is Zielinski... it would but the Johnny Gosch Foundation out of business. We have done good work for children for the past 22 years and this was build on integrity and hard work by me. I can not and will not allow Zielinski to that that away. My son's kidnapping should stand for something good in this country. This is too important.
CHARLENE: Has your attorney finally seen the light?! If not-- I'd probably fire him!
NOREEN: I am afraid he still feels the same way. I am working on another strategy of my own.
CHARLENE: The depositions that were taken for Zielinski vs Gosch were done on December 17th 2004. During the depositions you presented the plaintiff's attorney with a document your husband had prepared and Mr. Zielinski had signed in 2000. Please describe wh
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'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
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