Sorry Green. Although what I wrote to you was in no way meant to be mean spirited or mocking having reread it I can see how it may come across as such. I hope you did not take it that way. Sometimes my mood slips into what I'm writing...more often than not I'm afraid. Needless to say I've been in a bad mood lately. Perhaps that's obvious in what I write...maybe it's not.

I guess I can answer most of what you've brought up by addressing this question:

By your own account, you don't trust on Jesus. That clearly establishes that your God is not my God ... so who is the 'our God' you refer to Reg?

It's not that I don't trust Jesus, I just don't interpret the Bible in the same way as you. I also have questions about how it was assembled, what it says, and who has controlled what it says over the course of time. When I read Revelations I don't just take into consideration the words on the page. I consider who wrote them, the time in which he wrote them, what it may have meant to people at that time. I don't just see the book as "word of God" I see it as a record, a picture of what may have been taking place in the world then. I'm sorry but I'll always look at it that way. I also think, at least for me, that's what adds depth and meaning to the words. That there was a human being behind them and this person was writing something that had great meaning to them at the time. That gives the words their blood, their life. If I were just to attribute them to a God they would lose a lot.

See when I'm reading Revelations I'm thinking of this guy John exiled out on the island of Patmos round about A.D. 95. A bad time for Christians because the Romans were doing some real nasty things to them. I'm thinking of the Emperor Domitian who is referring to himself as a God and building statues of himself for citizens to offer sacrifices and tribute to him to prove their allegiance and recognize him as their God. He really does not like these people running around saying Jesus was the Son of God, these Christians. John got himself into some hot water for saying this stuff and so he ends up in exile. He knows his fellow Christians are being slaughtered and persecuted and so from his island he writes this passionate letter. In such dire times he wanted to stress to his fellow Christians that they should not lose faith in Christ, that God will triumph over all and defeat these forces of evil that seemed so overwhelmingly powerful.

The Romans were major league ass-kickers in those days...what the US is now...and there seemed no hope for these poor people to ever defeat them. Emperor Domitian could prove his godliness at any time but the Christian God was seemingly just standing by watching the slaughter...it would be an easy thing in times such as these for the faithful to lose faith. In this context John's letter, at least to me, makes a lot of sense. He is attempting to hold Christians together at a very fragile moment for them. His words are full of this passion. His words are meant to inspire, to give hope, to chase away fear and doubt.

Placed at the end of the Bible their meaning is drastically changed for me. They seem out of place and misused here. They seem to be employed for a very different and very specific purpose. Rather than being given the context in which they were written they are used as a finale...a grand ending...in this context, they reek of propaganda. I'm sorry but this seems so obviously intentional to me.

Some folks think it is also possible that the book of Revelations was written sometime around A.D. 68 before the destruction of Jerusalem, which would also add some interesting historical perspective to the book. I find that placing these books into a historical framework gives them more meaning. I think we have a major difference of opinion on this subject.

It seems that what gives the words in the Bible meaning to me detracts from their meaning to you. I like the fact that there were real human beings writing these words and find that humanity the most affecting. You seem to find the mystical "these are the words of God" idea the most affecting.

So am I talking about the same God you believe in or am I talking about another God? Do the people who wrote the words in the Bible matter? Does when they wrote them mean anything? Does what was going on at that point in history provide a different insight into their meaning?

You seem to find definitive answers in the text...I find more questions...