Reg
location: back to the wilderness
listening to: static
registered: 1999.11.22
posts: 6470
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Libby was the fall guy, that's how his defense team began their case and the jury did feel compassion for Libby because they felt he got himself in trouble for doing the bidding of his masters. So, we all know who Mr. Libby was the fall guy for and this means that if you have a fall guy you have person or persons getting away with a crime. I think the issue for Pat, other than the fact that he's now real turned on about this oil and chainsaw party and so keeps trying to get David to talk dirty to him some more, is that the right wing spin machine is set on high for this case and they have continued to promote that there is "nothing to see here, just move along." Pat is now set on "Repeat" and continues to go along with this. So, what exactly are we talking about here? Why is it so confusing for folks like Pat, and he's not alone by any means, to grasp why some people find the Libby trail important? Well, first it's that nobody was charged with outing Valerie Plame. The spin masters have taken that little nugget and turned it into, "If nobody was charged with the crime then the crime does not exist."Sorry, but in the real world that's not how it works. The fact is the investigation began because somebody in the Bush administration leaked classified information, specifically information vital to our "War on Terror", to the press. This is what most folks would consider a breach of National Security and some might even call it treason. Now let's be clear here, one of the first jobs of the special prosecutor would be to determine if in fact a crime had been committed. So, he would have begun by confirming that Ms. Plame's status was indeed classified, having confirmed that he could then proceed with his investigation and building his case. If Fitzgerald had found that Plame's status was not classified then THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION OR CASE. That's pretty simple isn't it?"Ok, but what happened to this crime? Why was nobody charged?"During the investigation of this crime the Bush White House, while telling the public they would fully cooperate with the investigation, decided to play a game of hide the squash. They did not cooperate and fell back on those wonderful old legal chestnuts "I don't recall" and "I don't remember."Takes you back to those wondrous days of Iran-Contra when you heard those phrases so many times we pretty much could have named it the Uncle Ronny Alzheimer Defense.The reason people use those phrases is because it allows you not to talk about what you don't wish to discuss and says to the prosecution "Hey, if you can prove something prove it but you can't prove what I can remember and what I can't." It's harder to prove to a jury that someone remembers something. This leak case was a classic example of this. The problem was that Fitzgerald and the two juries had evidence that our boy Scooter was told on at least 9 occasions shortly before talking to the press who Plame was. Needless to say both juries found it hard to swallow that Libby did not remember but that was not the only mistake Libby and his pals made. The other naughty thing they did was to, in Fitzgerald's words, attempt to hide behind the press. Libby, and we could only guess that this was planned strategy, told the grand jury that he learned of Plame through reporters, specifically Tim Russert. Now, there is good reason for hiding behind the press. One of the battles that will always get real ugly is dragging a freedom of the press issue through the court...specifically a case that involves the US government. You don't mess with freedom of the press in this country. We saw Miller go to jail, the battle about having confidential sources and protecting your source and Russert became a central character in this mess. In fact several reporters were involved including Cooper and Novak. It's interesting to note that the prosecution questioned Russert for 12 minutes during the trial, the defense questioned him for 5 grueling hours and then wanted to call him back for more when it was over. Their reason for all this was to try and create doubt in the minds of jury members because in their view Russert forgets stuff and the jury shouldn't believe him because he probably just forgot that he told Libby all about Plame. Slick huh? Funny thing was nobody bought that, not the judge or jury. What a surprise. This is what happened, during the investigation Libby lied to the FBI and grand jury. Fitzgerald found proof of these lies and Russert's testimony confirmed this. Now the boys at Bushco did something else that was sort of clever. Fitzgerald uncovered that administration officials, including Libby and Cheney, had talked to the CIA about Plame before everything fell out in the press and knew who she was so they made their story "Well yes, the CIA did tell us about Plame but we don't recall that they told us her position was classified." Again they put the burden on Fitzgerald to prove that the CIA did in fact tell Bushco that Plame was classified because they "don't remember" being told that. Many would argue that this is a ridiculous point because a CIA operative working in the area of WMD would of course be classified information due to the subject matter relating directly to national security. The problem is Fitzgerald needs hard proof that Bushco was told this despite the fact that it's obvious they are being incredibly disingenuous. Funny how again they seem to attempting to make George Tenet the guy at fault...hey they blamed him for the "Iraq is loaded with WMD" thing even though a Republican (at the time) controlled Senate intelligence committee and an independent commission both investigated this and said it was not Tenet and the CIA that blew the call on WMD in Iraq. Oh sorry, I'm getting off track here with facts Republicans would not like. During the investigation it must have become obvious that finding proof that Bushco knew Plame was classified would be difficult but a crime was committed in the process of the investigation and from there the burden is on Fitzgerald to prosecute that crime. It's also worth noting that in prosecuting the crime he has solid proof of it may create a situation where the original crime is exposed. Libby got caught with his...well in this case...tongue in the cookie jar. Despite all the evidence that the Bush administration leaked classified information to the press and that Cheney and Rove had knowledge of this Libby sidetracked the whole situation because he got caught trying to cover up. I understand that was sort of a long post and you are in the middle of oil and chainsaw fantasies right now so it's tough to break through that but did I clear a little of that up for you, Pat? Granted, it's complex (that's how Bushco wants it) and maybe I'm not the right person to attempt to explain it but it would be kinda cool if you could tear yourself away from the WD-40 for a minute and think about it.
–--
'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
Reg
(view)
Libby was the fall guy, that's how his defense team began their case and the jury did feel compassion for Libby because they felt he got himself in trouble for doing the bidding of his masters. So, we all know who Mr. Libby was the fall guy for and this means that if you have a fall guy you have person or persons getting away with a crime. I think the issue for Pat, other than the fact that he's now real turned on about this oil and chainsaw party and so keeps trying to get David to talk dirty to him some more, is that the right wing spin machine is set on high for this case and they have continued to promote that there is "nothing to see here, just move along." Pat is now set on "Repeat" and continues to go along with this. So, what exactly are we talking about here? Why is it so confusing for folks like Pat, and he's not alone by any means, to grasp why some people find the Libby trail important? Well, first it's that nobody was charged with outing Valerie Plame. The spin masters have taken that little nugget and turned it into, "If nobody was charged with the crime then the crime does not exist."Sorry, but in the real world that's not how it works. The fact is the investigation began because somebody in the Bush administration leaked classified information, specifically information vital to our "War on Terror", to the press. This is what most folks would consider a breach of National Security and some might even call it treason. Now let's be clear here, one of the first jobs of the special prosecutor would be to determine if in fact a crime had been committed. So, he would have begun by confirming that Ms. Plame's status was indeed classified, having confirmed that he could then proceed with his investigation and building his case. If Fitzgerald had found that Plame's status was not classified then THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION OR CASE. That's pretty simple isn't it?"Ok, but what happened to this crime? Why was nobody charged?"During the investigation of this crime the Bush White House, while telling the public they would fully cooperate with the investigation, decided to play a game of hide the squash. They did not cooperate and fell back on those wonderful old legal chestnuts "I don't recall" and "I don't remember."Takes you back to those wondrous days of Iran-Contra when you heard those phrases so many times we pretty much could have named it the Uncle Ronny Alzheimer Defense.The reason people use those phrases is because it allows you not to talk about what you don't wish to discuss and says to the prosecution "Hey, if you can prove something prove it but you can't prove what I can remember and what I can't." It's harder to prove to a jury that someone remembers something. This leak case was a classic example of this. The problem was that Fitzgerald and the two juries had evidence that our boy Scooter was told on at least 9 occasions shortly before talking to the press who Plame was. Needless to say both juries found it hard to swallow that Libby did not remember but that was not the only mistake Libby and his pals made. The other naughty thing they did was to, in Fitzgerald's words, attempt to hide behind the press. Libby, and we could only guess that this was planned strategy, told the grand jury that he learned of Plame through reporters, specifically Tim Russert. Now, there is good reason for hiding behind the press. One of the battles that will always get real ugly is dragging a freedom of the press issue through the court...specifically a case that involves the US government. You don't mess with freedom of the press in this country. We saw Miller go to jail, the battle about having confidential sources and protecting your source and Russert became a central character in this mess. In fact several reporters were involved including Cooper and Novak. It's interesting to note that the prosecution questioned Russert for 12 minutes during the trial, the defense questioned him for 5 grueling hours and then wanted to call him back for more when it was over. Their reason for all this was to try and create doubt in the minds of jury members because in their view Russert forgets stuff and the jury shouldn't believe him because he probably just forgot that he told Libby all about Plame. Slick huh? Funny thing was nobody bought that, not the judge or jury. What a surprise. This is what happened, during the investigation Libby lied to the FBI and grand jury. Fitzgerald found proof of these lies and Russert's testimony confirmed this. Now the boys at Bushco did something else that was sort of clever. Fitzgerald uncovered that administration officials, including Libby and Cheney, had talked to the CIA about Plame before everything fell out in the press and knew who she was so they made their story "Well yes, the CIA did tell us about Plame but we don't recall that they told us her position was classified." Again they put the burden on Fitzgerald to prove that the CIA did in fact tell Bushco that Plame was classified because they "don't remember" being told that. Many would argue that this is a ridiculous point because a CIA operative working in the area of WMD would of course be classified information due to the subject matter relating directly to national security. The problem is Fitzgerald needs hard proof that Bushco was told this despite the fact that it's obvious they are being incredibly disingenuous. Funny how again they seem to attempting to make George Tenet the guy at fault...hey they blamed him for the "Iraq is loaded with WMD" thing even though a Republican (at the time) controlled Senate intelligence committee and an independent commission both investigated this and said it was not Tenet and the CIA that blew the call on WMD in Iraq. Oh sorry, I'm getting off track here with facts Republicans would not like. During the investigation it must have become obvious that finding proof that Bushco knew Plame was classified would be difficult but a crime was committed in the process of the investigation and from there the burden is on Fitzgerald to prosecute that crime. It's also worth noting that in prosecuting the crime he has solid proof of it may create a situation where the original crime is exposed. Libby got caught with his...well in this case...tongue in the cookie jar. Despite all the evidence that the Bush administration leaked classified information to the press and that Cheney and Rove had knowledge of this Libby sidetracked the whole situation because he got caught trying to cover up. I understand that was sort of a long post and you are in the middle of oil and chainsaw fantasies right now so it's tough to break through that but did I clear a little of that up for you, Pat? Granted, it's complex (that's how Bushco wants it) and maybe I'm not the right person to attempt to explain it but it would be kinda cool if you could tear yourself away from the WD-40 for a minute and think about it.
–--
'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
'The only way to avoid getting crushed by absurdity, is to humbly include the absurd in our calculations.'
