"Problem with that program into the US was that it was never big enough to really do anything."

I think it certainly did something...in the last several years of the program it has brought heating oil to over 300,000 homes and hundreds of homeless shelters every year. I would not say that's not "really doing anything."

The truth is though Joe Kennedy began this in Massachusetts in 1979 and this was when he established a relationship and built a system to get oil from Venezuela to help the poor and the elderly here...which quite obviously was before Chavez.

What he built worked (and grew with no help from other major players in the oil industry that could have made the program even larger and better) and continued to work and Chavez did his part in keeping the oil flowing here. I don't think the whole thing has benefited Kennedy (who has been raked over the coals by right wing media morons for helping the poor and the elderly when they needed it most) or Chavez as giving oil to the United States does not play as a great PR move for him as you pointed out...not in his country nor in this country where he has been labeled an "evil dictator" by the same media morons that would bash Kennedy because he dared to help the poor and needy. We really do live in a country loaded with a lot of ignorant assholes, Russ, and personally I think it makes sense to make these people aware of when they are acting like ignorant assholes.

"It certainly helped a few people, but frankly the fracking boom has done more to bring down winter heating costs than anything else, especially as more and more homes use natural gas for heating."

I can't argue with the fact that we have a glut of natural gas because in order to keep costs up they are shipping the excess out of the country. This really has nothing to do though with the people that need heating oil and can't pay for it in a stalled economy...so I would not really even make a comparison between these two things. It's great we have a giant supply of natural gas and this should actually be a major boost for our economy but it seems certain folks would like to cap that boost...or allow it to have a more "gradual" progression might be how they would term it. Bottom line here though, the fracking boom and a heating oil program for the poor and needy really have nothing to do with one another.

"The heating oil program was a distraction, designed to the the same kind of stick in the eye to the US as was Marc's comment about Sean Penn to DBIS regulars."

Um, no offense here, Ross, but that is total bullshit. The Citizens Energy Heating Oil program has been a success not a distraction -though limited by poor participation from the oil companies that were making soaring profits, controlled production, cut costs, raised prices, and left people sitting in the cold and the middle/working class getting slammed at the pump and that could have made it a much larger success- there is a major issue with how you colored this in that sentence and it is nothing like what Marc did.

Marc was once again masturbating on this board to annoy people.

"As for Venezuelans, those types of programs were extremely unpopular. I cannot tell you how many have expressed to me (during my visits there) how much they hate subsidizing Cuba, Honduras, and even the United States while they simultaneously saw their currency lose many times its original value and had to suffer the indignity of $3000 credit card/exchange limits when traveling internationally."

This is part of why I bring this up. The right wing media morons and politicians (and it seems Marc eats this garbage up) promote the idea that this oil for the poor and needy program was some sort of PR stunt to win Chavez favor...where exactly? Not here...not in his own country according to you...so this is my point...in order to assess the situation in a real world way we have to take an honest look at it. Marc appears clueless on it but criticizes Penn because Penn went to look at things in person...so no matter what Marc thinks of Penn (and I doubt anybody gives a shit about that) at the very least Penn is ahead of him in educating himself on it.

If anything this oil program would be a stick in the eye to the oil companies that refused to participate and Kennedy is right to call them out on it by crediting the people that did provide the oil in the advertisements. It is no stick in the eye to the United States though...that's the political...read bullshit...side of the story.

"Many saw those programs for what they were: transparent attempts to buy regional influence and deflect criticism for real and significant human rights abuses at home. We're talking about abuses that make the Patriot Act look like child's play."

I don't think of Chavez as a hero. He is what a lot of leaders are...a very flawed mediocrity that achieved a degree of popularity because he gained power at a time when his country was already in turmoil. He did things that helped the masses and abused the upper class and is accountable for his abuses. He seemed quite often to me like he was nuts but he was elected each time in his country with a majority vote that was heavily monitored and verified. He did not steal elections or strong arm his way into victory. He did what the Tea Party and super pacs (and the NRA) wanted to do here though...used propaganda and media influence/manipulation to generate anger and influence while shouting down and minimizing his opponents. The truth is politics is a bloody business and to reach any height in it...particularly that of leader of a country...you are going to get dirty. I don't say that as a cop-out just as a matter of fact.