That's a very fine distinction that I formerly took to be one and the same. Which is cool because I do see the difference, although I'm going to have to mull it more to put it into its proper place.

If I understand correct, it would be a smidgen of the first, heavy on the latter.

Ntl, and feel free to tell me your analysis(per the provided definitons), human nature cannot be educated away. Short of threat of force/sanction: a goodly percentage of teenage girls are going to be catty and cliquish; Iraqi's(Kurd's, Sunni, Shia) are always going to want separate governance; Chechyan's are going to rebel against Russian rule, etc.

Not unlike the teenage girl example, there are smaller tribal clicks among Italians or blacks or orientals, and various smaller cliques within those based on one acceptable(to each group) reason or another. I view this too as a form of tribalism.

Maybe I'm wrong in my definitions Cassandra. I'm open to discussion. And part of my point is human beings come flawed toward certain pettinesses.

I got a kick out of the GrandToddler the other day. The GT is toddling but not talking excepting a few words. Anyhow, while leaning on the couch I was sitting on, the GT offered up the 'I want that' noise and when I didn't respond immediately but rather offered a hand to help the child pull itself up on the couch to get the desired object an attitude was copped, complete with refusing my hand, refusing to look at him, a cloudy contenence immediately followed with increasing volume applied to the' rescue me Grammy' noise. It's all quite funny, and often surprising, what comes part and parcel already prepackaged in children under two. Grammy is equally programmed to the GT's howl. Which also has its amusement value.

respects