& believe me, really, I know just exactly how far I’m skewed off-topic here

but..it’s the effect this thread’s posts had on the present direction o my bean

All this stuff is relative to the ways and means of our political status quo, etc.

Go all th'way back to Plato, for Pete’s sake, you will see parallel arguments

& th'mouthpieces for th'present mongers o mayhem & Mordor are a cancer

that is hate based and fear based and greed feed..& superstition ammunition

<<>

"Until philosophers rule as kings or those who are now called kings and leading men genuinely and adequately philosophise, that is, until political power and philosophy entirely coincide, while the many natures who at present pursue either one exclusively are forcibly prevented from doing so, cities will have no rest from evils,... nor, I think, will the human race." (Republic 473c-d)

<>>

...or maybe I'm just crackers anymore, it's been some whacko train ride