No. I don't believe the election was fair but it doesn't really matter now does it?

Of course that would matter and I asked you the question because it happens to be a rather large issue for all of us right now. I don't know what you think of me but I would not be alright with a stolen election no matter who stole it. I would say nobody here on this message board would be alright with that. A stolen election would mean that Democrats and Republicans would just keep going back and forth stealing elections and our votes would not matter and our country would be a joke. So, I'm not for that in any way. Even though I think Trump was terrible for this country, in a democracy you end up with the leaders that you deserve because the people have spoken. If we elect a terrible person it is our failure as a country because we failed to get enough people to understand what would happen if we elected that person. 

I asked you the question because it matters. Sure, I'd love to know what it is you have seen or heard that makes you think the election was unfair but I'm pretty certain you will never tell me. It's the same with all the Trump lawyers and Rudy. They ran around claiming the election was stolen but every single time someone said to them "OK, that's a big deal show us your evidence." Rudy and the lawyers said "Well, we can't." 

There was a huge reason for that, Marc, because it was just a lie, it was a fundraising PR campaign. That's freedom of speech. They ran around freely saying whatever they wanted. Fine. In a court though you can't do that. You have to present evidence. There was no evidence to present so, in over 60 different courts they had to throw it out. 

Trump wanted to keep repeating the lie because he raised over 255 million dollars on that lie. That's why he kept saying it and kept sending more and more lawyers into court. Just to drag it out and raise more money. He's still trying to raise money on it now. 

His own lawyers he hired to represent him in the new impeachment trial quit and he just had to replace them all a week before the trial. They quit because Trump wanted them to go into the Senate and repeat the lie about the election being stolen. They refused to do that because it is a lie, a fundraising PR lie, there is no evidence to back up. They can't do that. It will be interesting what his newly hired lawyers do. My guess would be if they mention the election being stolen it will always be with the qualifier "He believes" or "President Trump believes" because they can't incriminate themselves by making false statements about a stolen election. 

Bottom line here, Marc, is I asked the question so we could have a discussion. If you don't want to, that's fine. I won't bother you with it anymore. 

I can see what happened and make my own decisions (for now) but why is that even a question?

Because I wanted to know what it is that you see. I was trying to understand your viewpoint. I was trying to have a discussion with you about it. I do believe in free speech and I was trying to give you an opening to speak and say what it was you thought or present whatever it is that causes you to hold the belief you do. I mean I think you believe that I, Peter, EEE and everybody else here want to take away free speech or something. The truth is it is anything but that, people keep asking you questions trying to hear you out. 

So, if you have some stunning piece of evidence, reveal it, something to say, say it. I mean nobody is stopping you except you. This is not Parler or Twitter where if you say something nutty they will close your account. This is just us so the worst that can happen is somebody will say "That's nuts, Marc." 

So, the floor is yours if you want it. Free speech, free thought, say what you think. Tell me what it is you see.

This election was probably the most secure in our history and that was because it was also the most scrutinized. Everybody involved with running this election and keeping it secure were all over it to protect it and present fair and true results specifically because of Trump lying it about it for literally years leading up to it, how ridiculously close the 2016 election was, and due to Russia's interference with their influence campaigns.

It should have been an election that Trump himself could have used as an accomplishment, even more so because he lost, as under his watch we had the most fair and protected election in our history...and it was huge with record turnout. This election was a beautiful example of American democracy working at it's finest and Trump crapped all over it and fired Chirs Krebs the guy he put in charge of keeping it secure because Krebs did his job and we had a great election. 

You know when Trump won in 2016 the election was ridiculously close. Trump actually won the election by a total of 70,000 something votes total when you add up the swing states. Biden's margin of victory when you combine the votes he won by in the swing states was much larger than that. There was no uproar, no ongoing demand for recounts, no mutiny in the congress to invalidate the electoral college votes, none of that. Biden's victory was much bigger and clearer and it was turned into a circus.

I am not looking to fight with you or insult you, or even change your mind. I was just trying to get you to tell me what it is you see in this election that makes you think it was unfair.

Let me just tell you, Marc, if they had any evidence at all that it was rigged, stolen, unfair...they would have put it out all over the place, they would have shown it in court, and it would be investigated. The idea that there is hidden evidence they can't show us is so absurd we should all just laugh at that.

The premise that a whole bunch of Trump loyalists turned on Trump and rigged the election is absolutely insane. The people that Trump went after in Georgia for fixing the election...VOTED FOR TRUMP, SUPPORTED TRUMP, AND WANTED HIM TO WIN. They were Trump ass kissers. Bill Barr went out of the way to make new rules to allow for investigating the election just so he could create investigations that would help Trump. They could not get Barr a single shred of evidence to allow him to open an investigation. Nothing. Barr was willing and ready to investigate ANYTHING. He would have investigated somebody farting while counting votes. With Rudy and Powell and a whole team of nutcase lawyers they could not get him one single piece of evidence just so he could open even a ridiculous joke investigation.

They brought cases in front of judges that favored Trump, that said just show me something, any shred of evidence that shows any kind of fraud so we can have this case continue...Trump's lawyers, state Republicans, all of the investigators they were paying to find something, THEY PRESENTED EXACTLY NOTHING. So, even the people that wanted to help Trump could not put a case together or even present something that created a sliver of doubt.

I mean these are just the facts, Marc. They counted the votes, recounted the votes, hand counted the votes, counted again...there was no fraud, nothing unfair, nothing that could challenge the validity of the votes. REPUBLICANS AND TRUMP LOYALISTS FOUND THIS AND SAID IT. 

Plus I mean if they could rig an election (and I don't even know who you think rigged it or made it unfair) why didn't these people also rig elections against the Republicans that were on the same ballots that Trump's name was on. I mean it is the same ballot, you vote for the president on it then you vote for senators, congress people, ballot questions ALL ON THE SAME BALLOT.  Why didn't whomever you think was rigging the election rig the entire ballot? You think they just rigged the part that was for voting for president?

This is the problem, Marc, the theories that the election was rigged are off the wall ridiculous. They make no sense. 

This is why I asked you the question. I was hoping you could at least tell me what it was you saw that made you think this was rigged. I think it is fair to ask you this because the people that ran the elections and oversaw the security of the elections all say we had a free and fair election.