Before I begin my response, I should point out that I was shooting for humor in that post Mark. I'll warn you, I'll try to be serious here but I may not make it all the way through without a joke or smartass comment.
The founding fathers wanted us to have guns so that we could defend our country and also, I think, allow us to hunt. I mean back then you had to hunt for food and it was a great option...There really is no way that they could have envisioned where we are at today.
Wrong Reg...though hundreds of thousands of people still like to hunt, and it is often even necessary believe it or not for the sake of animal management if nothing else...
Ok, I'm not sure what you're saying I'm wrong about here. I don't have an issue with hunting. You are correct for the sake of animal management it is necessary. As a matter of fact we've had problems in Massachusetts with too many deer, and I would add wild turkeys, because there just aren't as many hunters these days. I can tell you that the founding fathers did not take into consideration this type of animal management though. I would say the attitude toward guns then was that they were a necessary tool, had I lived back then I would have wanted to own several. In England they would restrict gun ownership for the specific purpose of controling who could hunt...and I believe our founding fathers did not want to create those sort of restrictions for us. I also stand by my assertion that they wanted us to have guns to defend our country. So those, I believe, were the the main reasons for them preserving our rights to own firearms.
now how about a little perspective on what was really meant from someone of that era?
"The importance of this article [the Second Amendment] will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers." [emphasis added] - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (appointed by James Madison in 1811)
You do know I'm the one who posted this here don't you? I've read it and understand it. It also backs my point that the intent was defence of a free country against foreign enemies, domestic enemies, and even our own rulers. It says nowhere that they wanted us to own guns for personal protection, to shoot burglers, or rapists, or muggers, or even groundhogs. Now you see, I'm not against gun ownership but I do find it annoying when people or the NRA just make up stuff or trys to promote the 2nd Amendment says something that it clearly does not. I never hear people say "I want to own a gun so that I may join a militia and protect our country from all enemies foreign and domestic and above all prevent our rulers from usrping power."
The fact is they'd probably lock you up for yelling that out in a crowd these days. So, if you want to own a gun fine...just don't try to bullshit me with the Second Amendment. To be honest, I would be nervous if the government suddenly tried to take away everyones guns. The fact is our government doesn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution and neither does the NRA. They pick and choose what they want and they try to promote the idea it says what they want it to say. That my friend is a sad story indeed but people just don't give a shit about the Constitution anymore and the majority of them don't know what it says or have their own interpretation of it that suits their values.
I don't own a gun...mainly because I really don't want the temptation to use it to be there. I really just don't want to shoot anybody...
I don't either (want to shoot someone) and never have, but would if my life depended on it.
I'm glad you don't want to shoot anybody. I do think for different people what constitutes "their life depending on it" may be interpreted differently. I've been in many very dangerous situations in my life...probably I'm lucky to be alive...but I never needed a gun and I think if I had one in some of those moments, I'd be dead now.
I do believe that all male gun owners are trying to compensate for their small penis and probably deep seeded feelings of insecurity.
I can't even believe you said that. (and it's deep seated btw). Sean Penn has a concealed carry permit and does...are you suggesting that his penis is small?
Well, that was a joke...it was meant to be funny. On Sean Penn's penis size...which I'm sure he'd be delighted we're discussing...after all any publicity is really good publicity...and if they're talking about him...or it in this instance...that means it must be important...which to some extent makes it bigger by reputation alone...I'd have to say...though I've never met Sean Penn...I hear he's a small guy...I mean he's not very tall and he's thin...so I guess...umm yeah...if I were a betting man I'd say it was probably small...I mean going with the odds...but you know he does have a beautiful wife, a nice career, a good reputation in his field, and there's no debating he's an amazing talent as an actor and director...I loved "Indian Runner" and "The Crossing Guard"...I thought "The Pledge" was good but something about the end seemed a bit hollow to me...So overall with all the good stuff Sean has in his life if he's got a small penis I'm sure he's comfortable with that and I don't think it really reflects what sort of guy he really is. So, there you go...I never thought I'd write a paragraph on Sean Penn's member but I guess in life you never can tell now can you. I once wrote a short story called "What The Fuck Is Wrong With Randy Newman?"...but Randy was not in the story and it was fiction. I never thought I'd write that until I did. So...hey thanks for editing me by the way...if I ever go to get published will you be my editor?
I do believe people should have the right to purchase a gun if they so desire. That being said I know a lot of gun owners and to tell you the truth...I feel 95% of them should not be allowed to have a gun.
That's good (first point) , but I can assure you that you're hanging with a very atypical crowd.
For health reasons and in the interest of longevity I adjusted the crowd I hang with but the gun owners I speak of come in all shapes, sizes, and backgrounds...meaning not all of them are what you might see as slightly unhinged...but if I were to make a broad statement...why I would ever do that is beyond me...I think 95% of all gun owners probably would be better off without them...now that's a big number but I think it's more than likely true. I'm not suggesting that's what we do...take guns away from 95% of these people but do you think they really need them? I mean, I wish I could count on all these gun owners to protect me, being that I don't have a gun, but I think it's more likely they might one day put a bullet in me...by accident...or maybe even on purpose...I'm just glad Dale doesn't own a gun because he lives near me and probably has a good motive at this point.
...so he drops to his knees and puts the gun to his head and cocks it and says "Well, I can fix that right now if that's what you want!"
that's what I mean...most gun owners I know would ever do such an idiotic thing.
Jesus I would hope not. The thing is though what what we think "most people would do" is really not defined by how we see them in our normal routines...it's more based on how they would react when put in an extreme situation...or for a large segment of our society today based on whatever will get them on Survivor or Fear Factor...gotta get on tv ya know, gotta be famous...so I think we for the most part don't know what "most people will do" until they have to...or feel they have to do it...It's a Rumsfeld "known unknown"...anyway you have to admit booze, emotion, and firearms are a pretty poor combination...and all three are easily accesible to our society...at arms reach in most cases.
I've been around 36 years and so far have had no need of a gun to survive this lifetime. I think most of the time we're pretty safe...the media promotes fear and danger around us at all times and I think for a lot of gun owners that's left them frightened and insecure and feeling like they need some protection. I think if you own a gun you're also more likely to get shot. Maybe it's a karma thing but I think if you avoid them you're just more apt not to run into that sort of trouble.
I have no dispute with that, but I also happened to have grown up around guns and was taught at avery young age to respect the hell out of them and what they can do. It's not a living in fear thing. I just like to shoot for fun, kill an occasional groundhog and that's about it. I don't hunt anymore (other than said ground hogs) but had to complete a comprehensive hunter safety course before my parents would let me own a gun (age 10).
Well, first thanks for doing your part to control the groundhog population. Gene will sleep better knowing you've blasted a few of them nasty varmits! Second, I'm glad you've taken full advantage of your Constitutional Rights to blast groundhogs and have a little fun. All kidding aside though, I'm fine with that if that's what floats your boat but I think you can see what I mean when I say this is not what the founding fathers had in mind. I'm ok with people owning guns...but lets get real shall we.
Would less guns out there mean less people getting shot...
Maybe, and if we had less cars on the road maybe a hell of lot less people would be killed by them too! Shall we make it nearly impossible to get a driver's license too then?
Really, see if that's an argument...I mean I'm going to assume you're being funny...that's the kind of goofy stuff people say and really mean to defend their right to own a gun. It's sad that someone could actually try to say that and mean it. I'm going with you're kidding on that by the way Marc, I don't think you're serious...but some people would say that and mean it. God help us, but someone with that argument is exactly the kind of person that should not own a gun.
I also think if all gun owners were required to recieve counseling and get profiled each year we may be a little safer.
I agree that every gun owner should be properly trained, but profiling every year? That would be far to expensive...just look at what's happening in Canada right now with their new registration database that was supposed to cost 1-2 Mil and will now be over 1 BILLION by 2004. Plus your forgetting, criminals won't play by those rules in the first place and will buy unregistered and/or illegal weapons.
Really, I wasn't being very serious with that comment either. I know that that sort of program would not be practical but there should be something in place to make it more difficult to get a gun and there should be some sort of yearly recertification program. I just think acceses should be allowed but well monitored and subject to some tighter restrictions. A "good gun owner", as you see yourself, should have no issue with this. As for criminals, that does not come into play. That's a situation for law enforcement to handle and it's obvious if you're a criminal you could care less about the law and obeying it. So, it's not about stopping criminals from getting guns it's about making it more of a reasonable process to determine who should be issued an fid card and when and keeping up with whether or not you should be allowed to keep it.
I also think Hollywood should start making movies and shows with less violence and more sex. A lot more sex...and a lot more nudity...and allow all of it to be televised as well...
I wouldn't complain about that
I was kidding here too...I thought it was obvious...but I'm not saying I don't like the idea and I certainly would think you'd like it too. Dale and Gene probably like it as well...Mick has no say...who knows what he watches over there in the shire...
Wacky stat of the day...
Somewhere around 35,000 to 40,000 people get shot and killed in America each year.
Actually, it's a little less than that, but in 1999 MORE than half of those were suicides. And believe it or not, in Japan, where gun ownership is very rare, the suicide rate was even higher than here in the US.
This stat shows Americans are safer in Iraq than in America.
If there were 268 million soldiers in Iraq it might...(think deaths per thousand Reg, and don't count natural causes, suicides etc...)
But here's a couple of wacky stats for you:
- Medical malpractice is the third largest preventable cause of death in the United States; responsible for 80,000 deaths per year; or one every 7 minutes.
- Therapeutic drug use each year kills as many as 198,000 people, puts 8.8 million people in hospitals, accounts for 28% of all hospital admissions and costs as much as $182 billion
Let's outlaw Doctors and drugs! ....ahhh never mind.
Look, I was kidding with the stat thing too. What I meant to show was how people can use stats to prove whatever point they want. You just manipulate them to back up your argument. It's dumb...it's a good idea when someone uses stats to prove their point to sort of ignore that argument. You can manipulate them to back up whatever you want...we love stats in the United States have you noticed that? I do think Gene is not going to like that personal swipe about the doctors...he's a Canadian though Marc so don't worry...He'll just whack you on the nose with his newspaper and tell you you've been a bad boy. Now, don't shoot me and please don't try and get Sean Penn to shoot me either...
going out to buy a bullet proof vest,
Reg
