Marc: Funny how the "freak" is syndicated in over 125 markets while Al Franken and his Air America cohorts are having trouble even getting off the ground.

Well, I don't think Mr Boortz being in a bunch of papers speaks too well about the state of things. He seems pretty far right of center so I think that is just another nail in the "liberal media" myth...since he's so widely circulated. Popularity is not a sign that something is good...never was. For the record I don't pay much attention to Mr. Franken and since his radio show is pretty much internet only...I'm not going to be hearing much from him. I only recently read some of his writing and found it to be more comedy than political commentary. It was clear to me from what I read his tongue is firmly in cheek...it seemed he was pretty far from the "political hitman" I've heard him described as. I don't know anything about Boortz but if you are putting him in the Franken catagory then that tells me he is not to be taken seriously.

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HERE COMES THE NEXT BATCH OF PHOTOS

 Boortz: Not one story about locals befriending American troops.  Not one story about the growing Iraqi economy, commerce in Baghdad's shopping districts, new home construction, new schools, new electric service, satellite television receivers sprouting like mushrooms ... not one story.

Reg: First he's already said he doesn't read the Post so he doesn't know if there have been any such stories but then he asserts (I guess if you believe it hard enough it's true) that there has not been one as if it were fact.

Marc: I dunno if there was either, but can you post one up Reg?

Well, if I go search the Post for stories on improvements in Iraq and find a bunch in a matter of seconds that's going to be fairly ugly for Mr. Boortz no? It seems to me I have read and seen stories about minor improvements in Iraq but sometimes the info is buried in a story about something else. Have I seen headline stories about it? No, certainly not...but I did take a bunch of journalism classes at one point and the truth is using my best judgement I'd say not a single one of the items he listed merits a headline story. Who is going to read a story about new construction in Iraq? Or that they have a busy marketplace in Baghdad? Or that they have better electric supply? Or that there are satellite dishes popping up all over the place? These are all minor items and perhaps help fill out a story on something else but if you gave a story to an editor at a big newspaper that was all about electric supply in Iraq...I'd say he'd probably get pretty pissed and wonder if you have any clue what you're doing. Fact is...sex and death sell...the Iraqi prison story has both and politics too. It's juicy stuff to the media...it's always been that way...this guy Boortz is some kind of journalist isn't he? That being the case he knows this and is intentionally lying his ass off when he writes this stuff about the "liberal media" not reporting the good stuff. How many stories has Boortz wrote about these items? My guess would be fewer than the Post has because he wants people to read his stuff. So, he writes stuff that is meant to incite conservatives and that he knows will piss off liberals instead. He could have wrote a whole article about Iraqi electric supply but he didn't did he? No, and I wouldn't expect to see one from him anytime soon either. He got an agenda he's sticking to...one that sells.    

Reg: Someone pays this clown to write? Second, only an American conservative nutcase that draws a paycheck from some media outlet could claim that "satellite television receivers sprouting like mushrooms"  is a story worth reporting and has more weight than all the other nonsense taking place in Iraq. 

Marc: It's newsworthy because now Iraq has access to information they've never had before.  It was a goal to bring freedom to Iraq and that is just one example of it.

Iraq always had tv and satellite tv too. I'm not sure the fact that they have better access to Al-Jeezera is a good thing. They want us out of their country and the tv news they'll see is probably far worse than anything ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN is showing.

Reg: Plus...ahh...in case this dipshit forgot this is a country that has been bombed and starved for over a dozen years thanks to sanctions we put in place. Just was subject to our "Shock & Awe" treatment and Saddam wasn't spending big on infrastructure so of course there's new construction, you'd have to improve electric supply to facilitate this (plus we need to get electric to our troops) so it's sort of important that we begin work in these areas.  People have to shop...or we'd be starving them no? I have no doubt these things have taken place but when a country has been so abused for so many years...by it's own leader and the sanctions imposed by other nations...well it's common sense to know you'd see some improvement in these areas.  

Marc: So why aren't they seeing any of it? Are we to automatically assume as you do that it is taking place?  Or is it because it's positive and boring and not shocking or horrifying - therefore not newsworthy?

I take it you mean why aren't we seeing more of it here and I think I addressed that above. I don't think any of these items are "headline news" and I also don't think any of those items are really playing a major part in the hostile climate there. They are all nice but not major improvements. Face it those stories are nowhere near as big as fighting in Karbala or the prison abuse or Falluja...they are just filler to pad a story out. Sorry but that's the truth. It's not a liberal media bias thing, it's a media thing period...if it bleeds it leads...oldest line in the book.

Boortz: Ahhhh ... but then there's the story about prison abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison. Today the Post releases yet another batch of photos from the prison.  It's as if the Post's editors are demanding that the presses not roll until new pictures are prepared for the front page.

Reg: So the post is now stopping the presses until they get new photos? Someone pays this guy for these fantasies?

Marc: Re-read it Reg: "...it's as if..."

Yes, I know...I was playing off the way he's singing that old Republican hit song "The Liberal Media Blues"...I mean I think he's being ridiculous and you seem to be trying to tone down what he's saying with your additions here Marc. I understand what you're saying and you seem to have a better perspective...but Boortz is outright bullshitting.

Boortz: OK ... we get it!  Some American soldiers abused --- not tortured, abused --- Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib. 

Reg: I love this part. Oh how sweet it would be to send Mr. Boortz to some Syrian prison where armed Syrian guards could treat him to the "abuse" these Iraqis suffered and then question him afterwards about if he felt the treatment was torture or just "abuse." This man is scum of the highest order. Maybe we could leave him in the Syrian prison and tell him "Well, if you were being tortured perhaps there would be something we could do...but since this is only abuse...well...we just can't get you out. Sorry, bye bye. Let us know if they escalate things beyond the beating, electrocution, sexual humiliation, covering you in fecal matter, and rape. If they kill you we'll be sure to come back and do something but only if you didn't die of abuse."

Marc: I wasn't hearing screams of outrage from the left when Saddam was the one doing the torturing, and killing (not just abusing).  But if, God forbid, an American soldier does it it's automatically "Rummy" and Bush's fault and they must be held accountable.  Somehow that argument just doesn't hold water. 

No, you heard no screams of outrage from anyone during the 20 years or more of Saddam's fun and games. We plain didn't care...it never would have come up much either if they found the WMD's...but we didn't so...shift gears...well now we went because he had "rape rooms" (two of Bushie's favorite words) and to free the Iraqi people...hmmm...interesting...he told us we were going because Iraq was a threat...didn't pan out though...so now it's all about being good humanitarians and freeing the Iraqi people...who now want us to leave...

Truth is, it is the fault of Rummy and Bush...we're there because of them and they signed off on these...ahh...methods.

Boortz: Those American soldiers are being punished.  One has already been sentenced to a year in jail and is receiving a bad conduct discharge.  Other trials are pending.  The system is working.  What is the purpose of continuously hammering this story day after day after day?

Reg: Kind of nice how he forgets that this was run by Military Intel guys and the CIA and how Rummy and Bush signed off on it. It's the guys that gave the orders they should be going after not the ignorant patsy reservists at the bottom of the food chain in this thing.

Marc: Can you show me proof that those soldiers were explicitly told by Bush and Rummy to do what they did? I'll reserve judgement against them until then.

Let's try to remember here that whatever you do in these types of situations you don't put the president himself in a situation where it is easily shown he gave the direct order...the whole rule of plausible deniability...it has in fact been out there that Bush was briefed in January about this stuff and that well prior to that they discussed the success rate of interrogations at Gitmo and effectiveness of the methods used. I'm willing to bet that the actual techniques were not described to Bush but that they had effective methods was...and I'm sure he approved. There have been hints he signed off on tougher interrogation methods but as is always the case it takes a lot of time for this stuff to all come out. This is part of why it's such a large story.

Reg: Why is it a story? It's a big story because we've had Bushco hiding behind the idea that they are these great humanitarians since they could find no WMD's

Marc: umm...the terrorists over there just set up a roadside bomb with enough Sarin gas in it to kill 60,000 people.  That's what I'd call WMD.

Last I heard they were trying to track down where that came from and as you said "terrorists set it up"...this is not proof Saddam had WMD's...the terrorists have been running amok there for quite a while now.

Reg: and it's a story because the American people should have access to this info so they can decide if they want guys like Rummy and Cheney, and Bush that approve these tactics representing them. I for one, do not.  

Marc: It's ok with me if you don't Reg, but according to Google's Zeitgeist [link], people are far more interested in the Berg story than the prison scandal story and that was exactly Neal's point.  You wouldn't have guessed it by watching the news though.

Well, I don't know what people want to see more of. I don't want to see either story. People are drawn to these horrific images though and loads of people couldn't wait to watch the Berg video...I thought the Berg story was still in the news...there are a variety of strange facts that surround his death that I thought they were following. I've continued to hear quite a bit about the Berg story...even that he may have been CIA...

Boortz: Oh ... we all know what the purpose is.  This is a story that hurts George Bush.  This is a story that diminishes public support for the Iraqi front of the war on terror.  This is a story that comforts those who despise America ... and George Bush.

Reg: So, now anyone that does not support torture, rape and murder despises America? What a fucking joke this guy is! Yeah, right it's all about getting Bush. I suppose the liberal media was running the show at that prison. It was the liberal media that asked all these soldiers to pose for photos and smile and give the thumbs up. Yeah, that's why so many of the photos are the same with smiling soldiers giving the thumbs up...it's because the liberal media went there to pose them. What a fucking pile of bullshit this guy is spewing.

Marc: So you're saying that constant airing of prison abuse photos is somehow necessary and/or productive? 

No, I'm not saying that. Personally I think they should warn people before they show that stuff. I think for some people they do have to see it to believe it...for me a description would do.

If so, why aren't you demanding more information about the Berg story too? Oh wait, I forgot...that was Bush and Rummy's fault too wasn't it? Nevermind.

I believe we'll see more about the Berg story...I don't really think the Berg story helps Bush at all though...why Boortz draw that line is beyond me...I think it's sort of sick to to even suggest political gain from any one of these stories...it's just wrong. Berg's father blames Bush and Rummy for his sons death...don't forget that...his opinion counts more than mine in that case I think.

Reg: Nice how he ignores that the prison abuse story is ongoing because there is an investigation going on,

Marc: Yeah, well there's a war going on too you know.  I for one would like to hear a little more about how that apparently insignificant aspect of the whole affair over there is going as well.

We hear about the war everyday. The way it's all going there seems to be bad...did we do something that was good for the Iraqis by getting rid of Saddam...sure...but it's not a good situation there and it seems the Iraqis feel we're creating more problems by sticking around. So, if they want us out shouldn't we go? If they want or need to fight a civil war shouldn't we let them? We fought ours here...600,000 dead...do we need to fight theirs too? 

Reg: our entire government is on fire about it including Republicans, and more photos and video will keep appearing because the fucking idiots took so many.

Marc: once again, how is it productive to keep jamming them down our throats day in and day out?  It doesn't change a thing.  It just keeps people talking about it.

I don't think it's being jammed down our throats but it is what's being talked about in DC and they are investigating...trials are taking place...and there are a boatload of photos and videos that have not yet come out...so it's a story that will drag on...and it's not because the media is liberal it's because the story is a giant mess...they made a big sloppy mistake and it's going to be a big sloppy time watching it come out...trust me I don't enjoy this. I do believe you have to hold people accountable though all the way up the chain...and it goes way up to the Generals...to Rummy...and ultimately to Bush. It's their quagmire...like it or not.

Reg: Too bad there's only one Berg video huh? They could have at least shot it multiple camera so we had several angles of it. Hey but fuck...hopefully they will capture and behead another American soon so we have something else to show to help Bushco...or maybe the terrorist can blow up some more shit on our soil so Bush can use it in his campaign ads...I mean one more big bombing with a few thousand dead Americans would be just what the doctor ordered for ol' Bushco huh! Then the "War President" could cut in images of the American flag and talk about how he knows where he wants to lead this country over the images of death and destruction. So we remember!

Marc: one more time Reg, in an attempt to reel you back in from that bizzare tangent, the point is that the prison abuse scandal reporting has gone WAAAAAY overboard by comparison. It really is as simple as that. 

You can say that was a bizarre tangent but the thing is Bush did cut a commercial that used the dead of 9/11 for political purposes. Sick really...but whatever...I don't think they have gone way overboard with the prison abuse reporting I just think it's disturbing stuff and we'd all like it to go away but it's too big and too sloppy for that to happen quickly so it'll be around until some people have paid a price for it...and not just the reservists...they are going to take it up the chain and in the end it will probably cost Rummy his job.

Boortz:..."We have a class of people in this country, call them liberals, progressives, Democrats, socialists, elitists, intellectuals ... call them what you like --  but we have a class of people in this country who harbor such an intense hatred for George Bush, economic liberty, capitalism, the American culture and American political strength that they will sacrifice the safety and liberty of future generations of Americans just to see America disgraced in the Middle East and George Bush pushed out of the White House in November.

Reg: The guy that seems to be filled with hate is Mr. Boortz...he's calling all his fellow Americans that disagree with Bushco policy traitors. Same old song...if you disagree it means you hate America, you hate George Bush, and you're on the side of terrorism. Nice. He's a good little soldier this Mr. Boortz...got that whole "You're either with us or against us" crap down cold. What a bullshit artist he is.

Marc: No, his point here is that the constant barrage of prison abuse photos doesn't help anyone but the ememy and that that Americans who would promote that aren't doing America's effort in Iraq any favors.  We know it happened. Fine, let them investigate and prosecute. But can the rest of us just move on please?

It's certainly not as simple as we know now please make it go away...it's a story until people are made to pay for what they did...and the thing is the right seems to want to just lay it on 6 or 8 soldiers...that's not taking into account who really caused this to happen and who gave the orders...so it will get dragged out...if Rummy resigned that may make the media back off from it because they'd have the big name guy losing his job as the resolution of it...then people wouldn't care anymore because I think most Americans don't care what's done to the Iraqis.

Also it's crazy to say that the American media showing us these photos helps the enemy...these photos have been broadcast all over the place by foreign media...that's where it's creating an issue for us...not by showing it to Americans...and blaming the media is stupid too...this wouldn't be getting broadcast if it hadn't taken place to begin with...it's the fault of the people who gave the orders to do it...it's dumb to blame the media for their stupid behavior...

Boortz:It's tragic enough that we have to be fighting yet another World War at this time in our history.  It's even more tragic that we seem to have so many Americans who are actively pulling for the other side"

Reg: That right Boortz...slander those that oppose your views...it's what your fearless leader would want right? So, according to Boortz all Americans that don't blindly follow Bush and support his war, his way, are with the terrorists. Nice...so when will Boortz say start suggesting that they begin bombing any and all states that may fall to the Democrats in November? I mean shit they've got the ol' red and blue map...seems Boortz is pushing for civil war in this country. Red states vs blue states this time...hey we only lost some 600,000 in the first civil war right...

Marc: One last time. Why would someone support doing something that helps no one but the enemy Reg? Boortz doesn't care if you support his views or not he just wants to know how  seeing one more photo in the Washington Post is going to make George and Donald (or whoever's responsible) anymore guilty anyway?

Boortz is not writing that we should just give this a rest. He's writing that liberals are the enemy...the media is the enemy...the Democrats are the enemy...and they are all with the terrorists. This is a shameful article. If he wanted to get stuff out there about the good in Iraq he should spend his time writing about it...instead of trying to paint everyone that doesn't back Bush as "with the terrorists."