Hi Dan/All:)

Victory, in the sense you pose was never the objective.

However, the people who chose this action, no matter what they say on TV, are pleased as punch, because the practical distruction of a functional Iraqi society, including civil war, were/remain their objective. (Do some reading, they wrote their intentions down beforehand).

The American people have been manipulated, more lives will be spent for unstated(even denied) foreign policy objectives, and our nation will be further shamed with the innocent blood yet to be shed.

The endless war is a victory for the US government. It's the equivolent, maybe even better, than the Cold War. Kerry would have been no different, he said so if y'all recall. He'd be telling us it would be irresponsible to leave the Iraqi's in the lurch, etc(you must know the drill). We would still be building those 14 permanent bases the news don't talk about.

It's a victory, for the suppliers. War profits are notoriously better than those of peace time. No news there either.

But, common American's -the vast vast majority of us- have lost and will continue to: first and foremost the needless sacrafice of our children's lives, followed closely by our Bill of Rights, our reputation as a people, and lastly the debt.

I hope I fit your criteria. I regularly pray that my brethern's, who support these monsters, discernment will return. But too, there is the thought that these things must be, including the deception/culpability of the Laodiceans.

(deep sad sigh) respects