Lu 19:10* For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Tit 2:14* Who gave himself for us,

that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Jesus was/is Priest, Prophet and King. As scriture testifies he will return as a conquering King. As Mick rightly pointed out, Jesus could have overthrown his detractors as easily as he often cowed them, with a word(s).

Mt 26:53* Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Surely you'll recall he prophesied his own death and resurrection and the necessity of it.

Anyhow:)

Does a passivist do this?

13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14* And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15* And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. 17* And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. 18* Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19* Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20* Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22* When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.(cf, Mark 11:15-18, Mt 21:12-16)

Or this that is yet to come:

11* ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12* His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13* And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15* And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16* And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17* And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19* And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20* And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21* And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

There is a rider on another white horse(an imitation perhaps) in Rev 6 who has a bow but no arrows yet goes forth conquering.

I betcha a passivist would love to do this:

John 8:59 Luke 4:31

Afterward, I too thought better of the term defend. But, though Pat may not need my support, which I am certain he does not, I shall defend who and what I please Reg. Frankly I am surprised you even mentioned it. Also, it strikes me that you too in your challenging of myself are defending Pat. Hmmm :)

R> second I don't think that stating that cowards can blend in with pacifists is the same as saying pacifists are cowards second I don't think that stating that cowards can blend in with pacifists is the same as saying pacifists are cowards second I don't think that stating that cowards can blend in with pacifists is the same as saying pacifists are cowards

Which is why I worded it the way I did, I don't either but I was trying to provide a pertinent contrast that may apply to Pat's thought. We are all suseptible of mis/under stating our meaning.

R> I think the point was Pat seems not to think too much of pacifists. I think the point was Pat seems not to think too much of pacifists. I think the point was Pat seems not to think too much of pacifists.

I came away with that too but I was offering 'a' benefit of the doubt, option. To which, we both might note, Pat has not responded to, refuted nor clarified. So you're prolly correct.

R""?> So do treacherous elements whose design is toundermine our form of liberty. So do treacherous elements whose design is toundermine our form of liberty. So do treacherous elements whose design is toundermine our form of liberty.

Collectivist types, who pass themselves off as passivists, infiltrating legitimate spontaneous grass root peace, or say, antiWar movements. Take your pick there are shortage of those who labor for and 'call evil good, and good evil'. A for instance would be: our very own FBI. Certainly other elements within and without our government have spent time and moneys while desiring to undermine our variety of liberty.

R>""? One other biblical detail, a yet future mass murderer, without peer, will initially be adored as a peace bringer;""? One other biblical detail, a yet future mass murderer, without peer, will initially be adored as a peace bringer;""? One other biblical detail, a yet future mass murderer, without peer, will initially be adored as a peace bringer;

R> Chapter and verse on that? Chapter and verse on that? Chapter and verse on that?

Rev 6

He denoted by many names in scripture Reg. How about this one, the son of perdition. Or the prince of the power of the air.

You may recall that scripture is not a linear textbook Reg: A followed by B followed by C ... God made it inscrutable apart from assistance from himself on purpose, as is stated throughout.

Do carefully consider 8, 10, 11, 13 & 14

1Co 2:6* ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7* But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8* Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.(that there's an answer to Edlorah's recurring question:)! 9* But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10* But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11* For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12* Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13* Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14* But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Which is why christians are to:

2Tim 2:15* Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Cor 3:18* ¶ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19* For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.(that there's the answer to Edlorah's recurring question:)

NTL, one excerpt

9* And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10* And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11* And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12* ¶ Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

In closing: I've got a simple but common misassumption all sorts, including Christians and preachers, declare, 'Well after all, we're all created in God's image". It's not true nor is it scriptural. Quite the contrary. The answer is in Genesis 6.

Thanks for the practice Reg, hope all are well in your world. And trust in Jesus buddy boy, I'm sure the Mrs would rest easier with that assurance at her side.