I recognize that my position appears to be heartless, but I'll try to lay
it out politely.
Illegally entering this country (and remaining) is a crime,
yet our government has (mostly) turned a
blind eye toward it for generations, so the effort to clean it up has
increased exponentially to the point where
the notion of "fixing it" doesn't include actual enforcement of our
existing immigration laws because that would
be "too hard." Enforcement of laws prohibiting employment of illegals is
limited, and stopping the coyotes who
bring people across the southern borders doesn't appear to be a priority.
Under ideal conditions, legal immigration has the goal of allowing
people in who bring a skill that contributes
to the betterment of the nation. Most countries operate this way, and
most other countries will not hesitate to
provide a free ride to the nearest international airport when a guest is
found to be out of compliance with
their paperwork. Try overstaying a visa in Australia, China, Brazil, or
India. Look at how Mexico deals with
people entering illegally, or how hard it is to actually get a visa to
get in to Russia or Saudi Arabia. We
think of ourselves as the greatest country in the world yet our standards
for adding to the citizenry are
extremely low. We're getting the dregs through illegal immigrants from
these other countries, not their best
and brightest.
Taken in that context, the fact that we as a nation seem willing to
just take on millions of unskilled laborers
is staggering. Putting that many people "on the books" might--maybe--
have a positive impact with regards to
taxes, but many of those folks might not make enough to actually
contribute more to the coffers than they
consume. There will be a huge cost in terms of Social Security because
the people amnesty'd in could wind up
eligible for benefits without having paid in proportionally. Someone has
to foot that bill if there is any hope
of keeping SS solvent.
The other side of this is employment. There's no doubt that a LOT of
illegals are gainfully employed, and
they're employed because they work cheap because employers don't have to
pay taxes. Once they're legally in the
country on the path to citizenship, they have to be paid on the books,
taxes filed, etc. From an employer's
perspective, who is the more attractive employee--one who comes from
another country & culture and speaks a
different language, or one who was born here and fluently speaks English?
Are you going to take someone who is
clearly a legal citizen, or go through the hassle of I-9 documentation
and the inherent INS audits that result?
In a worst case scenario where employers forgo those who were amnesty'd,
now we've got a bunch of unemployed
immigrants, which violates the terms of their visa or green card, and now
they need to be deported--unless we
just continue to ignore the problem. Allowing the unemployed to stay has
an impact on crime rates, which then
has an impact on jail populations. No matter how you look at it, there
is a tangible financial cost to this
country.
As to your question "What about the children?" This is where the
"heartlessness" appears, but it's a very easy
solution. Send them back with the parents. If the child was born
outside of the US they'll be eligible
to petition for legal re-entry when they reach the appropriate age,
regardless of if they arrived with a parent
or on their own. If they were born in the US they have citizenship under
our current laws, and can either stay
with a guardian who legally resides in the US, or can return to the US
upon reaching adulthood or are recognized
as an emancipated minor. But that argument shouldn't even be central to
the discussion of deportation, since
estimates put the proportion of illegals with children under 18 at about
1/3 the total of the number of illegal
residents.
If a single parent winds up in jail due to crime, the child either
winds up with a relative or becomes a ward of
the state, but for some reason we treat immigration lawbreakers
differently than offenders of every single other
crime, and it costs this country an untold amount of money.
It's not an easy problem to deal with because the can has been kicked
down the road for so long, but unless we
start to do something that demonstrates enforcement we will see the
rivers of illegals continue to flow.
P
pkjensen
(view)
I recognize that my position appears to be heartless, but I'll try to lay
it out politely.
Illegally entering this country (and remaining) is a crime,
yet our government has (mostly) turned a
blind eye toward it for generations, so the effort to clean it up has
increased exponentially to the point where
the notion of "fixing it" doesn't include actual enforcement of our
existing immigration laws because that would
be "too hard." Enforcement of laws prohibiting employment of illegals is
limited, and stopping the coyotes who
bring people across the southern borders doesn't appear to be a priority.
Under ideal conditions, legal immigration has the goal of allowing
people in who bring a skill that contributes
to the betterment of the nation. Most countries operate this way, and
most other countries will not hesitate to
provide a free ride to the nearest international airport when a guest is
found to be out of compliance with
their paperwork. Try overstaying a visa in Australia, China, Brazil, or
India. Look at how Mexico deals with
people entering illegally, or how hard it is to actually get a visa to
get in to Russia or Saudi Arabia. We
think of ourselves as the greatest country in the world yet our standards
for adding to the citizenry are
extremely low. We're getting the dregs through illegal immigrants from
these other countries, not their best
and brightest.
Taken in that context, the fact that we as a nation seem willing to
just take on millions of unskilled laborers
is staggering. Putting that many people "on the books" might--maybe--
have a positive impact with regards to
taxes, but many of those folks might not make enough to actually
contribute more to the coffers than they
consume. There will be a huge cost in terms of Social Security because
the people amnesty'd in could wind up
eligible for benefits without having paid in proportionally. Someone has
to foot that bill if there is any hope
of keeping SS solvent.
The other side of this is employment. There's no doubt that a LOT of
illegals are gainfully employed, and
they're employed because they work cheap because employers don't have to
pay taxes. Once they're legally in the
country on the path to citizenship, they have to be paid on the books,
taxes filed, etc. From an employer's
perspective, who is the more attractive employee--one who comes from
another country & culture and speaks a
different language, or one who was born here and fluently speaks English?
Are you going to take someone who is
clearly a legal citizen, or go through the hassle of I-9 documentation
and the inherent INS audits that result?
In a worst case scenario where employers forgo those who were amnesty'd,
now we've got a bunch of unemployed
immigrants, which violates the terms of their visa or green card, and now
they need to be deported--unless we
just continue to ignore the problem. Allowing the unemployed to stay has
an impact on crime rates, which then
has an impact on jail populations. No matter how you look at it, there
is a tangible financial cost to this
country.
As to your question "What about the children?" This is where the
"heartlessness" appears, but it's a very easy
solution. Send them back with the parents. If the child was born
outside of the US they'll be eligible
to petition for legal re-entry when they reach the appropriate age,
regardless of if they arrived with a parent
or on their own. If they were born in the US they have citizenship under
our current laws, and can either stay
with a guardian who legally resides in the US, or can return to the US
upon reaching adulthood or are recognized
as an emancipated minor. But that argument shouldn't even be central to
the discussion of deportation, since
estimates put the proportion of illegals with children under 18 at about
1/3 the total of the number of illegal
residents.
If a single parent winds up in jail due to crime, the child either
winds up with a relative or becomes a ward of
the state, but for some reason we treat immigration lawbreakers
differently than offenders of every single other
crime, and it costs this country an untold amount of money.
It's not an easy problem to deal with because the can has been kicked
down the road for so long, but unless we
start to do something that demonstrates enforcement we will see the
rivers of illegals continue to flow.
posted 2015.07.13
posted on July 13th 2015
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Speaking of guns... – dale on July 2nd, 2015-
Re: Speaking of guns... – Dan on July 2nd, 2015-
Input from EEE? – Peter T. on July 2nd, 2015-
I've given up on the gun debate.... – EEE on July 2nd, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – randym on July 2nd, 2015
Not a gun-rights question, EEE... – Peter T. on July 2nd, 2015-
Given it some thought... – EEE on July 3rd, 2015-
Thanks EEE! – Peter T. on July 3rd, 2015
Re: Given it some thought... – randym on July 4th, 2015
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Marc on July 7th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Dan on July 8th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – dale on July 8th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Dan on July 8th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – dale on July 9th, 2015
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – messybear on July 20th, 2015-
Re: given the gun debate... – messybear on July 26th, 2015
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Reg on July 9th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – dale on July 9th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Reg on July 9th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – dale on July 9th, 2015-
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Reg on July 9th, 2015
Re: I've given up on the gun debate.... – Reg on July 9th, 2015
Re: I've Not Given Up On Dale – Peter T. on July 9th, 2015-
Re: I've Not Given Up On Dale – dale on July 9th, 2015-
Hypocrisy and Intolerance – Peter T. on July 9th, 2015
Dale is right... – Reg on July 12th, 2015
Re: I've Not Given Up On Dale – randym on July 10th, 2015
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