"Did my parents know I was having sex as a teenager? No. Did my parents know I experimented with alcohol? No. Did my parents know I was offered joints in high school? No. Did my parents know I stole a magazine from a corner store on a dare when I was 12? No. Do I think they would've wanted to know? You betcha. Wouldn't most parents? Of course they would."

Well, I can say we probably grew up in a very similar way Dale. I will say this though, when I did all this stuff as a kid (except for the stealing part, never did do that and I'm not sure why), my parents did know. I don't know maybe you hid it better or my folks had some sort of sixth sense, but they sure caught me plenty of times. I often thought I was getting away with something only to find out later they knew. They were, like your folks, great parents and they sure as hell paid attention...all the time. For some reason though, and I don't want to sound like an old coot, I think we had it better as kids than todays kids do. I think we could take more time to grow up and today the shit these kids can get involved with seems to begin at a younger and younger age. Kids have secrets and kids will experiment. How in touch the parents are varies from case to case. Another part of this that's big too, the family unit is no longer the same. When we grew up more mothers stayed home with the kids. The number that that stay home has shrunk consistantly over the years. There's just not as much supervision these days. Both parents have to work and there's more single parents. There's all kinds of arguements about this but I think the thing is sure the parents would like to know what the kids are up to but how much effort do they put in trying to find out? In todays world, how much effort is left in a single working parent that's struggling to pay the bills, put food on the table, a roof over their heads, and provide some sort of family life? I know some single parents and I know it's damn hard.    

 "Then why on earth would you accept the fact that parents in Florida may never be told their sweet, precious, darling little girls are having abortions? They can't get a tatoo or get Tylenol from their school without parental approval. It's even against the law for them to even have sex if they're under 16."

Well, see that's just it Dale, I'm not accepting of this fact. I would want the parents to know or at least some loving relative that could be there for the child so she would not have to face an issue like this alone. I never would want to see this happen, but one thing I want to be very clear on here is that YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE A PERFECT WORLD. You and I both know there's about a billion different scenarios that could be played out and I think you, Kevin, and Pat are all basing your opinions on this on children that have parents that care about them. The sad fact is, there's a boatload of kids that don't have parents that care about them. The other thing is people keep going after the 11 year old girl thing. Let's say we're talking about a 16 year old girl and her parents are deeply religious. Now this 16 year old girl is very bright, heading for a full scholarship at the college of her choice in fact and she's got a great head on her shoulders. Now she makes the mistake of getting pregnant because she falls deeply for her highschool sweetheart and agrees to have sex with him and they use a condom and it breaks, or slips off during the act. Now she decides she doesn't want to screw up her bright future with a child at 16 but she knows her parents, who are great in every way and she loves them to death, would never allow her to have an abortion due to their religious beliefs. She knows they would support her through a pregnancy but an abortion to them would be unthinkable. They would never allow it. They could forgive her mistake but not allow "the murder of a baby". She thinks it out and decides that she can't go through 9 months of pregnancy, and she would not be able to live with herself bringing a child into the world that she wouldn't care for herself. So to save her parents the misery and her own shot at a promising future she makes the choice to abort on her own. You and I both know there are some 16 year olds out there that would be fully capable of making this choice on their own. What's better allowing the parents to destroy her life with their choice, or her making her own? Again I want to state here as I have all along, I'd rather the parents be fully involved but depending on the parents, this may not always be the best thing.   

 "Would you approve of your daughter having sex (protected or unprotected) as a sophomore in high school? Wouldn't you want to know? How is this any different?"

No, and you know it's a dumb question, I wouldn't approve. I also wouldn't ask the government to try and create and pass some legislation to prevent my teenage daughter from having sex. I would know that's my responsibilty to work to prevent this from happening. It's a hell of a lot different because what we're talking about here is the end result of my teenage daughter already having had sex and now there are choice to be made from it's consequences. To tell you the truth if my teenage daughter got knocked up and chose to abort, I at least would believe she made the right decision. I would hope she'd involve me and I would have already had the talk about it with her, that if that's what came down the pike at her age an abortion would be the way to go because she just has too much life in front of her. What would you tell your daughter, if you had one at that point Dale? See I just think your agruments are all based on far to narrow a spectrum. If the father was you or I, yeah I think we'd love our kids to death and never want to see this happen. I think if the father was you or I, based on what we got for parenting, we'd at least be doing a pretty good job at trying to raise our kids well. So many parents don't do a good job or care though.

"My parents were (are) the best goddamn parents on this planet. I think they would want to know I was doing all of the above so they could address this issue right then and there."

I agree 100% with you man, we were lucky, and that's why we're the people we are and why we're able to discuss this issue with some heart.

 "When I was a teenager I didn't know shit about responsibility. Neither do these pregnant teenagers in Florida."

We were boys Dale, and the fact is we mature slower than the girls. Hell, I think that's still obvious in us right now. You and I could spend all day on a Sunday watching football, drinking beer, and throwing popcorn around the room and call that a good goddamn day. Our wives would probably have a different take on our behavior though. There's some bright high school kids out there Dale, to say they were all like us would be selling them short.

"Keeping their pregnancy hidden from the parents is not going to make the problem go away."

I've never said that what we're discussing about the ruling in Florida had to do with solving a problem. My take on it is, the government does not belong dealing with an issue like this. You're taking about, kids, abortion, parenting, how we grew up, our parents...all these are totally separate topics. The court ruled correctly is what I'm saying. Yes, there are MORAL issues that are stirred up within us about this and there are problems to be solved with taking care of the children that live here on this planet with us right now...whether they're yours, mine, or the forgotten children. We should be thinking about helping them. Those are all other issues though that are now being attached to the ruling by...well us, me, you, Kevin G., Pat, a bunch of middle age white guys with decent hearts. I think it's good we're discussing it but abortion & children are explosive topics and both inspire a lot of emotion. Especially from decent people.  

 "Keeping it from the parents may even de-sensitize the teenager. ("Hey. That wasn't so bad. I can do that again if I have to.") Oh yeah. That'll help."

I don't think I have to address this statement as I believe Stark Raving Brad and Kevin from Arizona already did. I'll chalk it up as a clunker thrown in to an otherwise pretty damn good argument.

"Reg, on this we can agree; the government should always stay out of our personal lives. This decision is all about "privacy". But what's next? Teenagers suing their parents for violating their privacy and entering their bedroom without permission?"

I know we can agree on that. That's why I don't call you names Dale...ha just kidding. The fact is I believe whenever you speak you're telling it like it is from your perspective and I respect that. I also don't think you're towing some partyline dogma when you make your arguments. I like that as well. I know that you, as I try to do, make your arguments based upon what you see as common sense not based on "The Right is always right". Bottom line is I've met you, I know you're a good guy. You still have the power to frighten some of the others around here though. HA!  

"(I'm soooo glad I don't have kids.)"

Well, ok...but you'd do alright as a dad I think.