Green Mtn
location: Observing the Progressive madness with considerably less amusement.
listening to: Grandchildren, the best reason for saving the future.
registered: 2004.04.03
posts: 2617
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Hey Eric:I couldn't find the Atlantic 9/11 series on-line, sorry.EEE Wrote:(it was sort of thing of what could go wrong did and what could go right did not)
Which governmental mismanagement are we talking about again here? There's so many in recent months/years/decades. Should we begin with the coup d'etat of '63? Or instances where our government admits(only because all tracks didn't get covered), they intentionally used our citizenry as lab animals, testing: diseases, psycho-tropic substances, the effects of atomic fall out, etc. And where do we stop, '45; '41; '29; '13; the 17th Amendment; the American inspired eugenics movement of forced breeding, sterilization and experimentation(s) on human subjects(like electro shock, labodomies or Hilter's model); the formation of foundations for the purposes of preserving wealth and all that benevolent social engineering resulting; Wounded Knee; the 118 U.S. 394 COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA v. SOUTHERN PAC. R. CO. decision of 1886; the Orphan Trains of the latter 19th century where children(w/parents too) were kidnapped off the streets of eastern cities and shipped west by church organizations with governmental acquiescence; the end/abrogation of states rights/US Constitution 1868; the missing(original) 13th Amendment that outlawed titles of nobility or else the loss of ones citizenship; small pox infected blankets(given to US settlers too); where.... (I'm almost crying here):Naturally we're discussing 11 Sept 01. But...can we please stop settling for these never ending plausible denials, and crimes against our own(& Iraqi's, e.g.), that don't quite add up(but repeatedly come from our best and brightest(sic), PLEASE!!! It's about as believable as 'NEW & IMPROVED!!!'. I mean cmon, it's not new if it's only been improved, just as it is not plausible when serious doubts remain.
Anyhow, in an effort, to honor your request, to be brief; these links may be a good jumping off point and cover many valid points(& craziness too), regarding the official story:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-11_domestic_conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:9/11_conspiracy_theoriesAs for my disbelief, apart from the pattern of history alluded to above...I think, having lived in the shadow of NORAD, started it for me. I learned about the change later of course, but until 3 months before 9/11, for decades, SOP anytime an aircraft was off course(a matter of minutes), or thereafter did not communicate with air traffic control, fighter jets were automatically scrambled. You probably don't recall my asking KevinG about this point; or that he was noticeably unspecific. But you might recall the Payne Stewart footage. NTL, that didn't add up. In my search for what had changed, I discovered that that authority had been removed from NORAD to the White House, and at least on the day in question, to VP Cheney, who did not authorize interception in time. Even though there was plenty of time, in all instances, and even more curious, several of those flights entered the air space of military bases while off course.The PNAC paper "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy,Forces and Resources for the New Century ." may very well explain VP Cheney's sustained hesitation, given he, among many other high placed members of this Administration, were founding members of PNAC in '97. Further, it explains the motivation for subsequent events, and yet future foreign policy events, involving China, Syria and Iran, too.-(More likely though, was the rapidity of the enactment of the Patriot Act. That was obviously already on the shelf somewhere. 300+ pages of law, that no one read(excepting Paul Wellstone, we're told), but was passed into law in less than 6 weeks time. Subsequent research showed there was in fact a connection between the content of the Patriot Act/Homeland Security and many initiatives of those associated with the PNAC dating back to Cheney's days as GHW Bush's Secretary of Defense.Then, while wondering how those two buildings came down so neatly, I discovered a third building, WTC 7, also came down that same day. A fire broke out in the smaller building, far removed from the two that the planes are said to have brought down. Two stories of WTC7 contained Rudy G's emergency management control center. I have still never heard of a fire bringing down any other steel framed building. EVER! Isn't that why? after tensile strength, steel is a preferred material for skyscrapers.Then I started learning the science. For instance, that diffused jet fuel(petroleum) does not get hot enough to weaken, let alone, melt steel. No where near(500 degrees C too cool, if I recall). And it's all the more unplausible when the fire ball occurs outside the building. Office supplies/equipment do not reach the necessary temperatures either. Then, there is the physics Freddy mentioned. Which despite its source, is still presumably disprovable, were it in error. (Please do not point to the 9/11 commission as a source of independent enquiry unless you found the magic bullet theory believable.) If anything, were the temperatures sufficient, the tops of 1 and 2 should have toppled to the side, not come down in a nice (relatively)little pile, like one would expect in a controlled demolition. How convenient all three bucked the laws of gravity and the melting points of metals.Furthermore, how does one explain the molten pools of steel, weeks after the event, under and causing the rubble to smoke, despite being watered and rained upon, that appear though jet fuel cannot reach such temperatures; even if it hadn't rapidly dissipated in a fireball moments after the impact, roughly 100 stories above.Then, there is the seismic activity curiously connected with the timing of the buildings coming down. More unfortunate timing I suppose.One last interesting 'tell' that should not be ignored, is the elevated level of stock market 'Put Options' placed preceeding the event(s). Investigative writer, Michael Ruppert briefly explains the concept very well:http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.htmTwo quotes:[The levels of put options purchased...were more than six times higher than normal.]No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.Such action was not limited to the Chicago Exchange. It was international in scope.
This would indicate foreknowledge. Profit taking of this kind would, wouldn't you think.-) So why wasn't this front page news. So would the phone call to San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown telling him not to fly on 11 Sept 01. So would Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds, among others, who were, or say they were censured by various agencies of our government in the aftermath of 9/11. As with records associated with JFK, RFK, MLK or other 'situations' that are sealed from view for decades to come; why would censure be necessary if there is nothing to hide?Because I believe the accuracy of this Theodore Roosevelt admonition, “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”, my conclusion is that these events were allowed to occur by elements within our government, for specific reasons. All of which are not as yet evident, though some have surely been enacted. Finally, I believe this is but one of many associated issues that illustrate our country is in dire straits, but only if you're concerned with, our continuation as an independent nation.SO...should I expect unwanted visitors?-)
–--
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
G
Green Mtn
(view)
Hey Eric:I couldn't find the Atlantic 9/11 series on-line, sorry.EEE Wrote:(it was sort of thing of what could go wrong did and what could go right did not)
Which governmental mismanagement are we talking about again here? There's so many in recent months/years/decades. Should we begin with the coup d'etat of '63? Or instances where our government admits(only because all tracks didn't get covered), they intentionally used our citizenry as lab animals, testing: diseases, psycho-tropic substances, the effects of atomic fall out, etc. And where do we stop, '45; '41; '29; '13; the 17th Amendment; the American inspired eugenics movement of forced breeding, sterilization and experimentation(s) on human subjects(like electro shock, labodomies or Hilter's model); the formation of foundations for the purposes of preserving wealth and all that benevolent social engineering resulting; Wounded Knee; the 118 U.S. 394 COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA v. SOUTHERN PAC. R. CO. decision of 1886; the Orphan Trains of the latter 19th century where children(w/parents too) were kidnapped off the streets of eastern cities and shipped west by church organizations with governmental acquiescence; the end/abrogation of states rights/US Constitution 1868; the missing(original) 13th Amendment that outlawed titles of nobility or else the loss of ones citizenship; small pox infected blankets(given to US settlers too); where.... (I'm almost crying here):Naturally we're discussing 11 Sept 01. But...can we please stop settling for these never ending plausible denials, and crimes against our own(& Iraqi's, e.g.), that don't quite add up(but repeatedly come from our best and brightest(sic), PLEASE!!! It's about as believable as 'NEW & IMPROVED!!!'. I mean cmon, it's not new if it's only been improved, just as it is not plausible when serious doubts remain.
Anyhow, in an effort, to honor your request, to be brief; these links may be a good jumping off point and cover many valid points(& craziness too), regarding the official story:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-11_domestic_conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:9/11_conspiracy_theoriesAs for my disbelief, apart from the pattern of history alluded to above...I think, having lived in the shadow of NORAD, started it for me. I learned about the change later of course, but until 3 months before 9/11, for decades, SOP anytime an aircraft was off course(a matter of minutes), or thereafter did not communicate with air traffic control, fighter jets were automatically scrambled. You probably don't recall my asking KevinG about this point; or that he was noticeably unspecific. But you might recall the Payne Stewart footage. NTL, that didn't add up. In my search for what had changed, I discovered that that authority had been removed from NORAD to the White House, and at least on the day in question, to VP Cheney, who did not authorize interception in time. Even though there was plenty of time, in all instances, and even more curious, several of those flights entered the air space of military bases while off course.The PNAC paper "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy,Forces and Resources for the New Century ." may very well explain VP Cheney's sustained hesitation, given he, among many other high placed members of this Administration, were founding members of PNAC in '97. Further, it explains the motivation for subsequent events, and yet future foreign policy events, involving China, Syria and Iran, too.-(More likely though, was the rapidity of the enactment of the Patriot Act. That was obviously already on the shelf somewhere. 300+ pages of law, that no one read(excepting Paul Wellstone, we're told), but was passed into law in less than 6 weeks time. Subsequent research showed there was in fact a connection between the content of the Patriot Act/Homeland Security and many initiatives of those associated with the PNAC dating back to Cheney's days as GHW Bush's Secretary of Defense.Then, while wondering how those two buildings came down so neatly, I discovered a third building, WTC 7, also came down that same day. A fire broke out in the smaller building, far removed from the two that the planes are said to have brought down. Two stories of WTC7 contained Rudy G's emergency management control center. I have still never heard of a fire bringing down any other steel framed building. EVER! Isn't that why? after tensile strength, steel is a preferred material for skyscrapers.Then I started learning the science. For instance, that diffused jet fuel(petroleum) does not get hot enough to weaken, let alone, melt steel. No where near(500 degrees C too cool, if I recall). And it's all the more unplausible when the fire ball occurs outside the building. Office supplies/equipment do not reach the necessary temperatures either. Then, there is the physics Freddy mentioned. Which despite its source, is still presumably disprovable, were it in error. (Please do not point to the 9/11 commission as a source of independent enquiry unless you found the magic bullet theory believable.) If anything, were the temperatures sufficient, the tops of 1 and 2 should have toppled to the side, not come down in a nice (relatively)little pile, like one would expect in a controlled demolition. How convenient all three bucked the laws of gravity and the melting points of metals.Furthermore, how does one explain the molten pools of steel, weeks after the event, under and causing the rubble to smoke, despite being watered and rained upon, that appear though jet fuel cannot reach such temperatures; even if it hadn't rapidly dissipated in a fireball moments after the impact, roughly 100 stories above.Then, there is the seismic activity curiously connected with the timing of the buildings coming down. More unfortunate timing I suppose.One last interesting 'tell' that should not be ignored, is the elevated level of stock market 'Put Options' placed preceeding the event(s). Investigative writer, Michael Ruppert briefly explains the concept very well:http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.htmTwo quotes:[The levels of put options purchased...were more than six times higher than normal.]No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.Such action was not limited to the Chicago Exchange. It was international in scope.
This would indicate foreknowledge. Profit taking of this kind would, wouldn't you think.-) So why wasn't this front page news. So would the phone call to San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown telling him not to fly on 11 Sept 01. So would Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds, among others, who were, or say they were censured by various agencies of our government in the aftermath of 9/11. As with records associated with JFK, RFK, MLK or other 'situations' that are sealed from view for decades to come; why would censure be necessary if there is nothing to hide?Because I believe the accuracy of this Theodore Roosevelt admonition, “In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”, my conclusion is that these events were allowed to occur by elements within our government, for specific reasons. All of which are not as yet evident, though some have surely been enacted. Finally, I believe this is but one of many associated issues that illustrate our country is in dire straits, but only if you're concerned with, our continuation as an independent nation.SO...should I expect unwanted visitors?-)
–--
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions.” Wm O. Douglas
posted 2005.10.24
posted on October 24th 2005
G
Green Mtn
location: Observing the Progressive madness with considerably less amusement.
listening to: Grandchildren, the best reason for saving the future.
registered: 2004.04.03
posts: 2617
[view all posts]
[view all posts]
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Frontline: Anyone watch it last night? – MadDog on October 19th, 2005-
Re: Frontline: Anyone watch it last night? – Big Fat Freddy on October 19th, 2005
Re: "Sickening and sad" – dale on October 19th, 2005-
Re: – Big Fat Freddy on October 19th, 2005
left, right... whatever – kravitz on October 19th, 2005-
Amen – Big Fat Freddy on October 19th, 2005
Re: left, right... whatever – dale on October 19th, 2005-
Re: left, right... whatever – Big Fat Freddy on October 19th, 2005-
Hustler Magazine? – PatBrown on October 19th, 2005-
Re: Hustler Magazine? – dale on October 19th, 2005-
Re: Hustler Magazine? – Big Fat Freddy on October 19th, 2005-
Re: Hustler Magazine? – Andrea on October 20th, 2005
It Took... – Green Mtn on October 20th, 2005-
Re: Bush brought 'em down!!! – dale on October 20th, 2005-
Is that your conclusion Dale? – Green Mtn on October 20th, 2005
Briefly Grn Mtn....I'd be interested to read your thoughts, but... – EEE on October 20th, 2005-
Re: Briefly Grn Mtn....I'd be interested to read your thoughts, but... – Green Mtn on October 21st, 2005
I Tried EEE – Green Mtn on October 24th, 2005
Re: Sickening and sad – Steve1 on October 19th, 2005-
Re: Sickening and sad – Big Fat Freddy on October 20th, 2005-
Sickening and sad, so let's do it too!!!! – kravitz on October 20th, 2005-
Re: Let's apply Peter T's logic.... – dale on October 20th, 2005-
Re: Let's apply Peter T's logic.... – Big Fat Freddy on October 20th, 2005-
Geez, Dale, you quote me and now I gotta play catch-up on this thread! – Peter T. on October 21st, 2005-
Re: Geez, Dale, you quote me and now I gotta play catch-up on this thread! – big@l on October 21st, 2005
Re: Peter – dale on October 21st, 2005-
And still no rebuttal – Green Mtn on October 21st, 2005-
Re: And still no rebuttal – dale on October 21st, 2005-
Re: And still no rebuttal – Big Fat Freddy on October 21st, 2005-
Re: And still no rebuttal – edlorah on October 21st, 2005-
Re: And still no rebuttal – Big Fat Freddy on October 22nd, 2005
Re: Peter – edlorah on October 21st, 2005
If the Idiot in Chief had done the right thing.. – EEE on October 19th, 2005
Re: Frontline: Anyone watch it last night? – PatBrown on October 19th, 2005
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